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    Advice, please? 
    #1
    Hey SL!

    Long time, no post. I have been reading and keeping up with everyone. Some SUPER fucking inspiring people posting right now. Talking to you, SoCal, ladyH, EP, Green, etc. I love this community, just been too down to participate much.

    I am posting now because I am desperately in need of advice - and there is no better place for advice than SL. Here is what is going on. My most recent quit attempt lasted about 4 months and then my chronic pain got in the way, along with other things (after a flareup). Since then, I have been up and down in dose. Up to 90 mgs and then tapered down to 60.

    I have been fairly consistently at 60 mgs a day since the end of April. I have also changed my habits of dosing really high once per day, so I am only ever taking up to 30 mgs at a time, once per day. The rest of the day I take 10 mg about every 4 hours and my last dose is at 7:30 pm. My goal is to get to 10 mgs every 6 hours and then finish reducing in dose from there incrementally. I will not spend any time patting myself on the back about this dosing schedule - but it is so much better than it was before. Here is what a normal day looks like:

    7 am - 10 mgs
    11 am - 10 mgs
    3 pm - 30 mgs
    7 or 7:30 pm - 10 mgs


    My problem is that I constantly feel like I am in a state of mild withdrawal. Do you think it is the 3 pm dose? Do I need to spread that out more and do 20 mgs for a couple days and just stick to 10 every 4 hours after that?

    It is starting to get to me. I have the head fog, the chills and goosebumps, tummy issues, etc. it is not terrible. On an acute wds scale it is about a 2-3. It reminds me of where I am at around days 7-10 after quitting - the worst of acute has subsided but you still feel pretty fucking rough. I don not sleep well, six hours at best. I am exhausted all day. Honestly, if wds was not such a familiar feeling for me, I might think I had a serious illness.

    The only thing that even remotely helps is (taking more oxy, obviously, but not an option for my dosing schedule that I am REALLY motivated to stick to) clonidine. I have an old RX that I got from a previous quit attempt. If I take a half of the .01 pill then the chills and everything are almost entirely gone. It does not help me sleep longer though. What in all bloody hell is going on and how do I make it stop? unfortunately, I can not make another stab at quitting opiates until sometime this fall due to my work/life schedule - so I am just trying to get as low as possible before then. Sometimes I cave and take the .5 clonidine but never cave and take more Oxy. At least not since April.

    I would be going lower than the 60 mgs by now but I never really recovered from this dose cut when I did it 6/7 weeks ago. I am afraid to do another one. It is wearing me out to always feel like this. Thoughts on what I am doing wrong? What happened to 3-5 days to stabilize?

    I am not having hardly any issues with cravings or wanting to go up in dose. I had a life altering event happen earlier this year and something changed in me - well, a lot of somethings, but one specific to this issue. I realized that I could take all the oxy in the world (and kinda went for it for awhile there, only about three months maybe?) and it wouldn?t make this feeling go away. It did not/does not matter how bad/good/ok I felt or feel, physically, the oxy still won?t make this fucking feeling go away. I don?t mean to sound flippant about the very real physical/mental addiction I have, just wanted to make clear that this is purely a physical issue for me. I am certainly not in a good state mentally and emotionally, but with what is bothering me, I barely notice the monkey on my back, and when I do, she is non-consequential. I am hoping that remains the same. Silver lining to an otherwise dark time in my life.

    Thank you so much to anyone who can give me advice on this.

    - VE
    Last edited by VastEmpty; 14-06-2018 at 06:00. Reason: Had to take out all the formatting screw ups that result in random “?” Throughout my posts.
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    #2
    Wow VastEmpty how much do I relate to YOU!!!!!??????

    Not sure if you've read any of my threads, but I am also a pain management patient on long term opiate therapy. I have DDD several herniated discs and have had a cervical fusion. Whooppeee!!! Do I win a prize!!!???? ; )

    I stopped my prescribed opiate medication recently because where I live we have to jump through so many hoops now as chronic pain patients that I was sick of doing it all to get my medication.

    Pain contracts, using one pharmacy. Random urine testing, pill counts, a lot of scrutiny every time I fill my rx. We have an "opiate crisis" here and it's made it much more difficult for legitimate people in pain now to get their medication.

    I can relate to a feeling of being in almost constant withdrawal, my Dr. had me on a dosage so low that is was impossible to stay out of pain and stay out of wd's at the same time.

    Having said all that I've kind of fucked myself now. I'm back in total pain. And not on any medication. I am going to see my Dr the end of this week and see what if anything else could be done for this. I don't have high hopes unfortunately.

    Why are you cutting back your dose so much? Has the Dr done this or have you?

    There is NO shame taking pain meds when you are in pain....you need to function.


    Sounds like you and I are in the same boat, seems to me you are in pain. There is a difference between addiction and physical dependence.

    Your dosing schedule looks identical to mine except I was taking 4mgs 4 times a day and no matter how I spaced it I was always on the verge of wd's.

    Devils advocate if it were me, I 'd try to stretch it to 5 hours and take a bigger dose. Can you hold out that long?

    I just looked at your schedule again, take the 30mg 3pm dose and disperse it and add it with your other dose times. Try and make it more even.

    What are your injuries like? What would happen if you stopped completely? Probably the same as me I suppose hey? You'd be in chronic pain and feeling it.

    If and when you cut back/taper further then quit make sure you get some comfort meds. I CT'd with no taper and no comfort meds. NO BUENO!! ; )


    I really enjoyed the honesty of your post and hope I helped in some small way even if it was only because I can relate to you.

    Here to support you no matter what,
    your friend,
    Ash.
    Sorry for the novel. PM me if you need or want.
    Last edited by EPL1; 14-06-2018 at 09:19. Reason: had a better look at dosing schedule
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    #3
    EP -

    I am sure you are right. Today I am going to do:

    7 am - 10 mgs
    11 am - 10 mgs
    3 pm - 20 mgs
    7 pm - 20 mgs

    I’ll do that for a few days and then go down in the two 20 mgs doses and then when I get them down to 10, then go down from there.

    I appreciate the kind words about there being no shame in taking opiates for pain. However, there IS shame around it for me. I’ve learned that my relationship with my pain medication is really fucking complicated. I have two autoimmune issues that cause pain. One is in remission, but the other one is always there. Having spent 4 months without the opiates, I can honestly say my pain is no worse off them than on them. Either way it hurts. The pills are just easier than calling in sick to lay in bed all day on a bad day. Not sure if that makes sense, like I said, my relationship to my medication is complicated.

    My last quit attempt is documented on SL in agonizing detail. I do not want to have to do that again. But here I am...

    - VE
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    #4
    Hi VastEmpty-
    You wrote:
    7 am - 10 mgs
    11 am - 10 mgs
    3 pm - 30 mgs
    7 or 7:30 pm - 10 mgs
    I think part of your withdrawal feeling is because you take more at 3pm, then less at 7:00/7:30pm, then go 12 hours without any. If it were me, I'd be taking exactly the same amount equally spaced apart. If you do this change, you might feel withdrawals from cutting the 3pm dose, but it won't take long before you feel better.

    Why are you trying to cut back? If you have chronic pain and it's hurting too much to deal with without meds, then you need pain meds. Or, maybe you are like me - feeling pain, but wondering if the pills really help that much? In my case, they helped, but not nearly as much as I thought. I had become quite tolerant of them. When I came off them, I was surprised that the pain didn't go through the roof. I feel it, but I'm getting by okay and without meds. Everyone is different though.

    All you can do is your best - and that IS good enough. Don't try to be a superman quitting drugs - it just makes you suffer more.

    "Life is short, smile while you still have teeth"
    Dale
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    #5
    That looks like a better dosing schedule VE.

    I'm sorry you have the autoimmune diseases, makes things more challenging for sure.

    No judgement here whatever you do. I'm here for you no matter what.

    And you do make sense to me, I get what you're saying totally.


    Have a great day VE, if you need anything I'm here for you.

    Your friend,
    Ashley.


    Quote Originally Posted by VastEmpty View Post
    EP -

    I am sure you are right. Today I am going to do:

    7 am - 10 mgs
    11 am - 10 mgs
    3 pm - 20 mgs
    7 pm - 20 mgs

    I’ll do that for a few days and then go down in the two 20 mgs doses and then when I get them down to 10, then go down from there.

    I appreciate the kind words about there being no shame in taking opiates for pain. However, there IS shame around it for me. I’ve learned that my relationship with my pain medication is really fucking complicated. I have two autoimmune issues that cause pain. One is in remission, but the other one is always there. Having spent 4 months without the opiates, I can honestly say my pain is no worse off them than on them. Either way it hurts. The pills are just easier than calling in sick to lay in bed all day on a bad day. Not sure if that makes sense, like I said, my relationship to my medication is complicated.

    My last quit attempt is documented on SL in agonizing detail. I do not want to have to do that again. But here I am...

    - VE
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    #6
    Moderator
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    Move the 30mg dose to 7pm so you can get good sleep every night. Sleep is very important for how you feel
    Addicted? Want to stop? We can help! Come to the sober living forum!
    http://www.bluelight.org/vb/forums/269-Sober-Living
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    #7
    cj has a better idea.

    Hi cj, me waving!!

    Ash.!


    Quote Originally Posted by cj View Post
    Move the 30mg dose to 7pm so you can get good sleep every night. Sleep is very important for how you feel
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    #8
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    I don't know if it's better just different. Try both and see what works best.

    What up Ashley
    Addicted? Want to stop? We can help! Come to the sober living forum!
    http://www.bluelight.org/vb/forums/269-Sober-Living
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    #9
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    Yes large dose later in day. You don't need a large dose in am because you will have a Empty stomach and the large dose later will help sleep and relax at night
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    #10
    Thanks everyone for the responses. I’m going to start my new dosing schedule this weekend.

    Lari - I have an empty stomach allllll day, trust me. One of the habits I got into when getting into opiates was to eat once a day (before bed). I know, not healthy, but just wanted to say, there is no difference between any of my scheduled doses and the contents of my stomach.

    I will let you all know if leveling out the dose seems to fix the issue.

    - VE
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    #11
    Hi VE,

    I wish you the best with your new dose schedule, you know where to come for support. I hope you had a great day!!

    Btw, it's funny I too only ate once a day in the evening. Things are beter now. I 've been doing protein smoothies in the morning, doesn't sound like much but it's a huge change for me. And believe me at 5'4 110 lbs I can't afford to lose any weight. Lol...

    Best of luck VE.

    your friend ,
    Ash.



    Quote Originally Posted by VastEmpty View Post
    Thanks everyone for the responses. I’m going to start my new dosing schedule this weekend.

    Lari - I have an empty stomach allllll day, trust me. One of the habits I got into when getting into opiates was to eat once a day (before bed). I know, not healthy, but just wanted to say, there is no difference between any of my scheduled doses and the contents of my stomach.

    I will let you all know if leveling out the dose seems to fix the issue.

    - VE
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    #12
    ate once a day in the evening
    Me too! I started my meal at 8 in the morning and stopped at 8 in the evening.

    Seriously though, I did eat big meals an hour before bed. Seems like opiates and a full stomach and a nice warm bed all go together really well don't they.

    VE - I'm glad you are starting a new dosing schedule. Hopefully it will work better for you. I never went 12 hours without a dose myself. I would wake up if I went longer than 8 hours as if a mental "givemedrugs" alarm was going off.

    Have you tried getting any exercise to help with the chronic pain? My doctor told me that jogging could add years to my life. He was right — I feel ten years older already :-)

    Your friend,
    Dale
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    #13
    Thanks for the support guys. So far so good, I’m at a 10, 10, 20, and 20. I’m going to stick with this until I’m noticeably feeling better. Then go to 10, 10, 15, 15 and cut from there.

    I have actually realized that that it’s not common to go 12 hours without a dose. Believe it or not, I used to go closer to 16 hours and I slept fine. I did wake up feeling kind of rough, but other than that I was fine physically. I think I had my body trained that way because that’s how I had always done it. I started evening out my doses when I decided to taper. That was about 3 months ago now. I also eat a big meal at night. Sounds like we all have similar eating habits, haha.

    Keep up that great work, everyone!

    - VE
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    #14
    Hi VE!!


    Happy to hear your new dosing schedule is working better for you!!

    Keep up the great work, here for you anytime my friend!! Do you have any plans for the weekend yet?

    Hugs,
    Ash.



    Quote Originally Posted by VastEmpty View Post
    Thanks for the support guys. So far so good, I’m at a 10, 10, 20, and 20. I’m going to stick with this until I’m noticeably feeling better. Then go to 10, 10, 15, 15 and cut from there.

    I have actually realized that that it’s not common to go 12 hours without a dose. Believe it or not, I used to go closer to 16 hours and I slept fine. I did wake up feeling kind of rough, but other than that I was fine physically. I think I had my body trained that way because that’s how I had always done it. I started evening out my doses when I decided to taper. That was about 3 months ago now. I also eat a big meal at night. Sounds like we all have similar eating habits, haha.

    Keep up that great work, everyone!

    - VE
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    #15
    VE- I hope you do real well on your new doses. If I were you though, I wouldn't drop 5mg + 5mg at the same time as you are thinking. I think you'll feel that a lot. If it were me, I'd cut 2.5mg or 5mg (probably 2.5mg) from the third dose, and no cut on the fourth. That last dose is what helps you sleep the most. Insomnia can make you feel just as miserable as cutting too much.
    Whatever you decide, I'm here rooting for you.

    I hope your best day ever - starts today,
    Your friend,
    Dale
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