Introducing a new tool - PsychCombo

Tronica

Tronica

Executive Director
Staff member
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
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Dear Bluelight Community
Bluelight has contributed to a newly released harm-reduction tool called PsychCombo.
Feel free to check it out here.
You are welcome to comment on the tool on this thread or directly to The Mescaline Garden.
More information about it is available below:

The Mescaline Garden are proud to announce the launch of their new project; PsychCombo.com

Their aim was to combine the most popular parts of online psychoactive information (such as Erowid, Bluelight, PsychonautWiki, TripSit, the Entheogen Combination Matrix, etc.) in a simple and easy to use format. PsychCombo has two main components:
  1. Psychoactive substances. By selecting a psychoactive, you can learn its effects, and the intensities associated with different dosage weights.
  2. Psychoactive combinations. By selecting multiple psychoactives, you can learn the risk rating of different combinations and create your own combination chart. You can also select a combination to learn more about the risk and people’s experiences of the combination.
The significance of PsychCombo is not just its content, the beauty is format and process. We built PsychCombo as open source on GitHub, in the hopes of enabling a community of contributors. The goal is to grow this content for years to come.

In time they plan to include dosages for multiple routes of administration (currently PsychCombo only displays the most common route of administration). They will also add individual pages for drugs currently listed as drug groups (e.g. add codeine, morphine, etc. rather than just opioids), as well as scientific references relating to combination risk ratings. They’re also planning to make PsychCombo downloadable and available offline.

It's been a long journey (~1500 individually coded pages long!), but this tool is finally ready for the public. If someone wants to learn more about consuming a particular psychoactive, PsychCombo should be their first point of call.
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Hmm.. seems like a useful tool, but I'm not sure it entirely works. I clicked the 2C-T-x and was expecting to see high risk of combination with amphetamines, but it's possible I just don't understand how to use it exactly.
Err actually I figured it out it's pretty simple. You click a substance which then highlights, then click another substance and the grid appears. I dunno why but I had LSD, cannabis, and opioids all selected as well.

When I deselected them, and selected just 2c-tx and amphetamines it says high risk.

very cool!

It does seem somewhat basic and certain things are generalized in a way that I don't find helpful, but hopefully as more people contribute, it will populate with more and better data.

I also wish the danger rating colors had more contrast. I looked at the site on my 10 year old phone and it's a bit difficult to distinguish between greater risk and minor risk as well as low risk synergy/low risk no synergy. The colors are very similar.
 
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Didgital said:
Hmm.. seems like a useful tool, but I'm not sure it entirely works. I clicked the 2C-T-x and was expecting to see high risk of combination with amphetamines, but it's possible I just don't understand how to use it exactly.
Err actually I figured it out it's pretty simple. You click a substance which then highlights, then click another substance and the grid appears. I dunno why but I had LSD, cannabis, and opioids all selected as well.

When I deselected them, and selected just 2c-tx and amphetamines it says high risk.

very cool!

It does seem somewhat basic and certain things are generalized in a way that I don't find helpful, but hopefully as more people contribute, it will populate with more and better data.

I also wish the danger rating colors had more contrast. I looked at the site on my 10 year old phone and it's a bit difficult to distinguish between greater risk and minor risk as well as low risk synergy/low risk no synergy. The colors are very similar.
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That’s excellent feedback - thank you!
 
Ya
Didgital said:
Hmm.. seems like a useful tool, but I'm not sure it entirely works. I clicked the 2C-T-x and was expecting to see high risk of combination with amphetamines, but it's possible I just don't understand how to use it exactly.
Err actually I figured it out it's pretty simple. You click a substance which then highlights, then click another substance and the grid appears. I dunno why but I had LSD, cannabis, and opioids all selected as well.

When I deselected them, and selected just 2c-tx and amphetamines it says high risk.

very cool!

It does seem somewhat basic and certain things are generalized in a way that I don't find helpful, but hopefully as more people contribute, it will populate with more and better data.

I also wish the danger rating colors had more contrast. I looked at the site on my 10 year old phone and it's a bit difficult to distinguish between greater risk and minor risk as well as low risk synergy/low risk no synergy. The colors are very similar.
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ya, I agree that it’s pretty basic. Why can’t I select ALL the categories?i tried, and it didn’t work, so I was :(
 
polarthedog said:
Ya

ya, I agree that it’s pretty basic. Why can’t I select ALL the categories?i tried, and it didn’t work, so I was :(
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I dont think you need a website to tell you that taking all drugs all at once is a bad idea. It seems to max out at 3 substances, which is reasonable imo.

When I said basic or over generalized. 2C-x is a huge class of compounds. 2c-b and 2c-e should not be treated the same at all imo. But it's a huge challenge I admit to list every chem individually and their specific interactions. I hope as time progresses, it becomes more useful and hopefully more specific.
 
Kratom+ketamine considered dangerous?

It would be nice to have some reasoning or rationale for the ratings when you click on them. At the moment there's basically nothing so I don't know why specific combos are dangerous or in what way
 
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Yes, it's only really useful if we know what the evidence is behind the ratings. I understand the creator was providing this rationale, but perhaps just isn't there for all possible combinations (as it's still in progress!).
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Kratom+ketamine considered dangerous?
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Can't explain their reasoning for this but I would assume it's because mixing any depressants probably has a higher risk than taking a single compound.

Kratom also, is also not very well understood. It has so many different alkaloids, that hit so many receptor types, it's difficult for me to say combining kratom with anything is inherently safe.

Anecdotally it seems safe on it's own, and with many other compounds, but as we're seeing kratom usage rise, we're also starting to see adverse events more and more.

Personally, I had a close friend, who was using tramadol daily for a long time. He started to incorporate kratom into his usage, and it led to a heart attack within a week, apparently due to enzymatic conditions, and certain compounds in kratom inhibit certain enzymes that are used to break down tramadol?

Kratom is a weird one.
 
T
Tronica said:
Dear Bluelight Community
Bluelight has contributed to a newly released harm-reduction tool called PsychCombo.
Feel free to check it out here.
You are welcome to comment on the tool on this thread or directly to The Mescaline Garden.
More information about it is available below:
Click to expand...
This is awesome. I tried to sign up as a GitHub member so that I could help with the kratom section but the "continue" button after the email textbox doesnt work. Who do I notify on that? Would love to help...
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Kratom+ketamine considered dangerous?

It would be nice to have some reasoning or rationale for the ratings when you click on them. At the moment there's basically nothing so I don't know why specific combos are dangerous or in what way
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The website is still pretty beta. The page does have this disclaimer:

"This website may contain errors. If you find one, please help us fix it"
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Honestly I don't know if it is a mistake, no sources are cited
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Right so if you look at it, members are enable to edit and add (wikipedia style). The page also states this "Disagree? Found a typo? Got more info? Edit this page or email us" and also, "Psychoactive use is embedded in cultural and environmental contexts and should be treated with caution and respect."

And anyway - anything without a cited or linked source should be taken as suggestive only anyway.
 
Didgital said:
Can't explain their reasoning for this but I would assume it's because mixing any depressants probably has a higher risk than taking a single compound.

Kratom also, is also not very well understood. It has so many different alkaloids, that hit so many receptor types, it's difficult for me to say combining kratom with anything is inherently safe.

Anecdotally it seems safe on it's own, and with many other compounds, but as we're seeing kratom usage rise, we're also starting to see adverse events more and more.

Personally, I had a close friend, who was using tramadol daily for a long time. He started to incorporate kratom into his usage, and it led to a heart attack within a week, apparently due to enzymatic conditions, and certain compounds in kratom inhibit certain enzymes that are used to break down tramadol?

Kratom is a weird one.
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Ketamine is metabolized by CYP3A4 and 2B6. Kratom inhibits CYP3A4. There is a possibility of metablic inhibition slowing down ketamine’s elimination rate and therefore increasing its effects. Andedoctally, I have not found this to be a problem but thats the possible science on that interaction. I am trying to get in to edit this on the PsychCombo website...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Inhibitory effect of mitragynine on human cytochrome P450 enzyme activities

To date, many findings reveal that most of the modern drugs have the ability to interact with herbal drugs.This study was conducted to determine the inhibitory effects of mitragynine on cytochrome P450 2C9, 2D6 and 3A4 activities.The in vitro study was ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Thanks for sharing the project Tronica, and thank you Bluelighters for engaging with PsychCombo and sharing your feedback. This blog post has another explainer about PsychCombo that may be useful.

Some additional detail for how the content of PsychCombo has been developed and how we hope it will progress – our goal before going live with this was to include all the psychoactives in Tripsit’s Guide to Drug Combinations and EGA’s Entheogen Combination Matrix (plus meditation – we’re trying to go for a bigger frame than ‘drugs’). As well as combinations involving these psychoactives, we included an image, common names, effects, duration and dosage of the most common ROA (of the most common form of the drug, if in a drug group). We have also searched for a relevant/educational experience report and quote for every combination and added all that we were able to find.

Of course, this leaves some holes, most notably other ROAs and distinct drugs within drug groups (2C-x and 5-MeO-xxT being priorities due to diversity within these groups), but we are hoping this will be populated in time. There are many, many other substances we hope to add too, but it is quite a big job.

Another priority is to populate related research literature for each combination. There will be very limited clinical work with most substances but there should at least be some theoretical pharmacology/works on related compounds for combinations that have no experience reports. Compiling this research evidence for combinations is something I’m thinking of working on over the coming holidays.

Didgital – RE risk code contrast, there's a bit of a tension between the colours being bright and the text being readable. We’ve upped the brightness, hopefully this helps.

CmonYouShouldKnowBetter – Thank you so much for your willingness to help – this is exactly the type of research content we are hoping to start populating. I think we would aim to cite the paper you have shared as well as a paper showing Kratom to inhibit CYP34A. I’ll have a chat to my colleague and get back to you about getting onboarded to GitHub – you’ll be the first as we haven’t gone through this process yet.

In more simple terms, as well as this CYP34A concern, there is some additional risk of unconsciousness and respiratory depression with ketamine + kratom, much like there is with ketamine + opioids in general.

Thanks again Bluelighters <3
 
LiamEngel said:
CmonYouShouldKnowBetter – Thank you so much for your willingness to help – this is exactly the type of research content we are hoping to start populating. I think we would aim to cite the paper you have shared as well as a paper showing Kratom to inhibit CYP34A. I’ll have a chat to my colleague and get back to you about getting onboarded to GitHub – you’ll be the first as we haven’t gone through this process yet.
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Awesome! I would love to get on board
 
CmonYouShouldKnowBetter - could you please PM or email ([email protected]) me your email address or GitHub username so we can add you to the project? Thanks again for collecting these papers!

I agree that kratom, relative to most common opioids, has less respiratory risk, but I think there is still some risk of respiratory depression with kratom.

In this case report, kratom seemed to induce significant respiratory depression.

In this animal study "respiratory depressant effects of mitragynine showed a ceiling effect... In contrast, 7-OH mitragynine induced a dose-dependent effect on mouse respiration." This suggests respiratory depression is a greater risk for dried kratom relative to fresh.

In my view, it seems safest to treat Kratom like a typical opioid when we estimate risk for the public, until there is more evidence around this combination.
 
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