Suboxone, never going back again, but it sucks

[drjunkie]

Going ahead with a new thread even though I'm sure most of this is discussed elsewhere. I came off suboxone end of Dec 2022; it was horrible but I did it. I'm happy to share what I did, but I don't know if I'd recommend it. I was on 4mg; I had some Tramadol which I took fo about a week and that did help a bit but it was overall a nightmare. I was also being prescribed Adderall by the same doc and I cut that off as well.

I was clean and slowly I started to feel better physically, but for the first time in my life I had real depression, just constantly exhausted, no motivation etc.. Slowly, all the pain that I didn't realize was being masked by it came back. I was taking subs since 2010 and when I came off I was (and am) 54. I had minor shoulder surgery in Feb and gave the rx to my wife and took it as prescribed. I got a refill that I didn't ask for and was't prepared for and ate it up over 4 days. I began going to NA (again), got a sponsor and told them all this.

That surgery was a help, but I still had wicked shoulder pain. By March my left arm was numb and tingly and I was in pain all the time. I didn't want to explore another surgery, but I think it was necessary. Since then, I've had legit scripts which I've taken as prescribed but I still feel like an addict. When I'm not using (which is a loaded term I understand, but for this addict, taking as prescribed seems just like using) I feel depressed and that's been compounded by the very real pain associated with my degenerated neck. I had surgery for that on June 22, it was pretty awful overall. Since the surgery I've been feeling like a strait up addict again. Getting and filling prescriptions, even though they are *legit*. Walking around with a neck brace like a guy trying to get on disability (which I'm not).

So specifics maybe will help here. I am prescribed 15mg norco every 6 hours and I took that as prescribed for the first 5 days after surgery. I asked for a refill. I took that as prescribed as well and that ran out today. Despite all the years of this bullshit, and all evidence to the contrary, I planned to stop and move on without pain and without any drugs. No, hydrocodone, no adderall, no clonazepam no nothing. My wife and son went to Chicago for the 4th; I didn't feel like I could go - doc said no long car trips.

So today I wake up, feeling bad, pain, sweaty, you know. I broke down and called for a refill which I got.

I can tolerate the pain, but I got a refill anyway. This refill will run out and I'm too afraid to get any elsewhere. I used to get them from a connect and online, but with the fentanyl now I'm afraid to do so. NA helps some, but most people I meet there, online anyway, have 30 years clean or are so far down that I can't relate. Also, you can't have a conversation there, you can share, or you can listen, but you can't have a back and forth. I'm hoping to find that here, that kind of support.

I'm home alone, sitting up and watching TV and I feel fine. But today was a real setback. I wasn't ready to just quit - I'm going to have to taper (again) and prepare (again) with immodium, advil, some sort of benzo (I think I have some valium around here) and HOLY SHIT I'M TOTALLY FUCKING BORED OF THIS SAME STORY FOR 13 YEARS NOW!!!!

I won't go back on suboxone, I won't. There is no plan to get off that. But shit, I'm tired of being a cliche.

Thanks for listening, please don't yell at me, I know all the mistakes I've made. I feel like I was almost out - I was clean after all. But I was miserable and I really had no idea it would take me upwards of six months to recover for suboxone and that's assuming no legit pain meds are necessary.

Arg.

 

[RxVeritas]

Firstly, welcome to bluelight, you've come to the right place!

I want to make sure I understand your situation here.

When it comes down it to it, it sounds like you recently got a refill on your norcos, and you're concerned that this may lead you back into suboxone (as opposed to having to go through hydrocodone withdrawals). Is that accurate?


As you well know, suboxone can be a double bladed sword.

Have you considered kratom? It's a lot shorter acting, and a much more mild opioid, although many people (myself included) have used it with success to get off of stronger opioids. I know 2mg of suboxone daily isn't much, but I was able to get off of it (after a relatively short taper) with the aid of kratom, and it was more or less painless. It can be extremely helpful in reducing symtpoms, espescially RLS, associated with opioid withdrawal.

 

[drjunkie]

Thanks for getting back to me. So yeah, short story - I was on Suboxone for 12 years, got off in December and after some relatively serious withdrawal and post withdrawal, I was clean. Then came fresh pain, and with it, fresh prescriptions, which even though I've taken (except for a couple short lived fuck ups) as prescribed. But I never felt 'right' since coming off suboxone and I've heard, here and elsewhere, it can take up to a year.

On June 22, I had an anterior cervical discectomy with 3 vertebrae fused together. I got a short fill of Norco and a refill and I had planned to leave it at that. After the first fill I had some legit pain. Sunday, I finished that 2nd short fill and - I'm almost embarrassed to say - I couldn't take it. It wasn't that bad (I had been using only for 10 days) but I knew if I called and asked for more I'd get a refill. And that's what I did. Yesterday (Monday) at around 3:30 I picked up another 5 day supply and I'm taking that now. I don't need advice on how to get through the w/d (although I appreciate it) I just can't believe that after all I've been through, the only way I'm going to get clean is if/when I have no access. I am powerless to leave it if I can get it, although I suppose the good news is that I'm unwilling to pursue it illegally.

What I'd like from this group is to have some place to talk about it all, especially when this rx runs out and I have no more and I have to look ahead to no opiates. When I got on subs I never expected getting off would be this hard. It's been 6 months for Christ's sake.

 

[Heroes Inc.]

I am right there with you, my friend. Sitting here in bed knowing I should be taking my daily Suboxone dose but hating it so much. I’m on 2mg of Suboxone daily, but the thing is my doctor is totally OK prescribing me Percocets so I can switch back-and-forth at my own will.

I have a Crohn’s disease which is a gastrointestinal issue, but I over play it because my brain tells me I want drugs. Of course I am in pain at times but usually Imodium and fasting will take care of the issues.

So I know somewhat what you’re going through. There is a massive shortage of Percocets right now as are a lot of medication‘s so I’m forced to stick on Suboxone which I absolutely do not prefer over the Percocets. But when I take the Percocets of course I feel like I’m an addict, sound familiar? At least I have stopped drinking and using stims. Kratom was recommended to me as well and I look forward to educating myself on its effects and helpfulness.

 

[drjunkie]

Holy shit I have to thank you for getting back to me here. I hadn't been here in awhile as I was just taking my rx after surgery and kicking the ball downfield. I was clean before the procedure, it was an anterior cervical discectomy with fusion. Good times and a decent amount of pain. I didn't get anything anywhere else, just got my rx and tried to stretch it, one week at a time. By last week I got 28 5mg norco and ate then up in 3 days and started feeling sick last Thursday. I suffered, but I was off work, for 4 days. I haven't been sleeping more than 5-6 interrupted hours a night. It was the usual nightmare, 3,4,5 days using, 4,3,2 days of withdrawal.

By today I was ready to give up, I called in a refill but it didn't show up. I sent a message to my suboxone doctor and asked to get back on.

Then I came here and read this post and I figured I'd give kratom a shot. I read up what I could and found some at a local 'cigar' shop. I bought a bag of 160 capsules for $25, I gather they are like .5mg per. I took 4 and then 4 more and finally 4 more. I feel better than I've felt in days! I don't feel high, just not terrible and actually sleepy for the first time since I can remember.

I don't see this as permanent replacement, but if gets me past days like today without using I'm a believer. I don't know why a doc wouldn't prescribe but will prescribe suboxone, which is virtually impossible to get off of. I read with some amusement about how this stuff isn't FDA approved. But oxycontin sure was, wasn't it.

Thanks again

Firstly, welcome to bluelight, you've come to the right place!

I want to make sure I understand your situation here.

When it comes down it to it, it sounds like you recently got a refill on your norcos, and you're concerned that this may lead you back into suboxone (as opposed to having to go through hydrocodone withdrawals). Is that accurate?


As you well know, suboxone can be a double bladed sword.

Have you considered kratom? It's a lot shorter acting, and a much more mild opioid, although many people (myself included) have used it with success to get off of stronger opioids. I know 2mg of suboxone daily isn't much, but I was able to get off of it (after a relatively short taper) with the aid of kratom, and it was more or less painless. It can be extremely helpful in reducing symtpoms, espescially RLS, associated with opioid withdrawal.

 

[drjunkie]

I am right there with you, my friend. Sitting here in bed knowing I should be taking my daily Suboxone dose but hating it so much. I’m on 2mg of Suboxone daily, but the thing is my doctor is totally OK prescribing me Percocets so I can switch back-and-forth at my own will.

I have a Crohn’s disease which is a gastrointestinal issue, but I over play it because my brain tells me I want drugs. Of course I am in pain at times but usually Imodium and fasting will take care of the issues.

So I know somewhat what you’re going through. There is a massive shortage of Percocets right now as are a lot of medication‘s so I’m forced to stick on Suboxone which I absolutely do not prefer over the Percocets. But when I take the Percocets of course I feel like I’m an addict, sound familiar? At least I have stopped drinking and using stims. Kratom was recommended to me as well and I look forward to educating myself on its effects and helpfulness.

Try the kratom, I'm a believer. I'd sure prefer percocet to suboxone. I think subs is a good drug for addicts really in the thick of it, but it should be prescribed with a plan to get off. It's not a long term solution, in my, not uneducated, opinion. Curious how you work the percocet with the subs, when I was taking subs, anything else was wasted on me. Part of what makes it a good drug for addicts like us.

 

[drjunkie]

Holy shit I have to thank you for getting back to me here. I hadn't been here in awhile as I was just taking my rx after surgery and kicking the ball downfield. I was clean before the procedure, it was an anterior cervical discectomy with fusion. Good times and a decent amount of pain. I didn't get anything anywhere else, just got my rx and tried to stretch it, one week at a time. By last week I got 28 5mg norco and ate then up in 3 days and started feeling sick last Thursday. I suffered, but I was off work, for 4 days. I haven't been sleeping more than 5-6 interrupted hours a night. It was the usual nightmare, 3,4,5 days using, 4,3,2 days of withdrawal.

By today I was ready to give up, I called in a refill but it didn't show up. I sent a message to my suboxone doctor and asked to get back on.

Then I came here and read this post and I figured I'd give kratom a shot. I read up what I could and found some at a local 'cigar' shop. I bought a bag of 160 capsules for $25, I gather they are like .5mg per. I took 4 and then 4 more and finally 4 more. I feel better than I've felt in days! I don't feel high, just not terrible and actually sleepy for the first time since I can remember.

I don't see this as permanent replacement, but if gets me past days like today without using I'm a believer. I don't know why a doc wouldn't prescribe but will prescribe suboxone, which is virtually impossible to get off of. I read with some amusement about how this stuff isn't FDA approved. But oxycontin sure was, wasn't it.

Thanks again

PS I certainly wouldn't agree that 2mg subs isn't a lot. Of course it's all relative, but when I first kicked subs after about 6 years on I was down to 2mg. I dropped off there and went through 8 days of absolute hell. The 2nd time I did it I was at 4mg but I had some tramadol which helped a little. Still, that was two weeks of pain, itching, RLS, sweating, all sorts of gastric stuff that I'll spare you... well you know the drill. And yes, what I'm trying to avoid is getting back on subs. Earlier today I didn't think I had a choice. I'm here at day 5 and *maybe* the acute w/d was better but the cravings were worse together with depression and panic. I'm so grateful for the kratom advice, thanks again. I feel much better. Still not tired but I'm hoping that will come soon.

 

[RxVeritas]

Holy shit I have to thank you for getting back to me here. I hadn't been here in awhile as I was just taking my rx after surgery and kicking the ball downfield. I was clean before the procedure, it was an anterior cervical discectomy with fusion. Good times and a decent amount of pain. I didn't get anything anywhere else, just got my rx and tried to stretch it, one week at a time. By last week I got 28 5mg norco and ate then up in 3 days and started feeling sick last Thursday. I suffered, but I was off work, for 4 days. I haven't been sleeping more than 5-6 interrupted hours a night. It was the usual nightmare, 3,4,5 days using, 4,3,2 days of withdrawal.

By today I was ready to give up, I called in a refill but it didn't show up. I sent a message to my suboxone doctor and asked to get back on.

Then I came here and read this post and I figured I'd give kratom a shot. I read up what I could and found some at a local 'cigar' shop. I bought a bag of 160 capsules for $25, I gather they are like .5mg per. I took 4 and then 4 more and finally 4 more. I feel better than I've felt in days! I don't feel high, just not terrible and actually sleepy for the first time since I can remember.

I don't see this as permanent replacement, but if gets me past days like today without using I'm a believer. I don't know why a doc wouldn't prescribe but will prescribe suboxone, which is virtually impossible to get off of. I read with some amusement about how this stuff isn't FDA approved. But oxycontin sure was, wasn't it.

Thanks again

I am so very glad that you've found some relief in kratom, my friend. It can be useful for a lot of people, and it's an option that many of them probably don't know they have, partially because of how much big pharma hates it.

This is probably selfish of me, but there aren't a lot of things that make me happier than knowing that a stranger, through the internet, was able to able to find value in/benefit from some piece of information or insight I was able to provide at the time.

So thank you,

for thanking me,

but most importantly,

I'm glad you're feeling better.

 

[Heroes Inc.]

 

[Heroes Inc.]

Try the kratom, I'm a believer. I'd sure prefer percocet to suboxone. I think subs is a good drug for addicts really in the thick of it, but it should be prescribed with a plan to get off. It's not a long term solution, in my, not uneducated, opinion. Curious how you work the percocet with the subs, when I was taking subs, anything else was wasted on me. Part of what makes it a good drug for addicts like us.

I agree with you that the bupe does block out MOST feeling I get from the oxy, but not all. For instance, I took my last 1mg of bupe a week ago, and I now feel the full affects of the oxy. But during this past week, I was taking enough oxy to eliminate WD symptoms (around 30/40mg per day).
I can see how bupe can be a very slippery slope.. I talked with my doc about this and he likes the idea of weening off the Percocets, and giving Kratom more of a shot. I have used Kratom in the past and it truly is a god send…

Here is my problem; I take the Oxy for the pain I get from my Crohn’s disease, which is a gastrointestinal disease. So the Kratom can be a little harsh on my system.

So the solution my doctor and I discussed is as follows: stay away from the bupe and slowly ween myself down to 5-10mg of oxy per day, and perhaps stabilize on that dose. I have benefited from lose dose oxy. I’m curious to see how the Kratom would help a crohns flare in the future when I do get down to 5-10mg per day. In the past, I would just take more oxy, but I know this isn’t a good long term solution. I also feel like if my receptors are not too saturated, I will benefit more from the Kratom. I’m so thankful my doctor is progressive and is open to helping me get through all of this in different ways..
trial and error.. He just demands I stay honest with him.

Keep us updated of your progress, and I’ll be sure to do the same.
Good luck!

 

[drjunkie]

I am so very glad that you've found some relief in kratom, my friend. It can be useful for a lot of people, and it's an option that many of them probably don't know they have, partially because of how much big pharma hates it.

This is probably selfish of me, but there aren't a lot of things that make me happier than knowing that a stranger, through the internet, was able to able to find value in/benefit from some piece of information or insight I was able to provide at the time.

So thank you,

for thanking me,

but most importantly,

I'm glad you're feeling better.

Honestly, I used to look down on people who would take medical advice from random internet stranges, but now I'm one of those people. If I wasn't sure the FDA and docs didn't have any answers 5 years ago, I'm sure now. I had heard of kratom before but I wasn't really paying attention. It's working for me, and I don't feel like I can't control it like I invariably did with hydrocodone and the like. I don't want to take anything forever, but I'm ok eating this funky plant grindings for now. I would have ended up back on Suboxone and that works to be sure, but there is no getting off, at least no way that doesn't involve a lot of pain, as you know.

Thanks Internet Stranger!

 

[drjunkie]

You are lucky to have an open minded doc. I had one once years ago, but not anymore. I have a brother with Crohn's and it truly sounds awful. I remember enjoying slow moving bowels while taking hydrocodone so much I almost suggested it to him actually. My gut has been mostly fucked up since I stopped suboxone, only got better after like 3 months and by then I was taking hydrocodone again for surgical pain.

I also had similar experience with subs - I'd think 1mg after a week, you'd get some relief from oxy. I think you'll find 40mg down to 10 will be hard, but if you augment with the kratom, you'll be fine. I'm an expert now after 3 days lol.

but I have been dealing with addiction for many years so unfortunately I'm a real expert there. So I can tell you that my receptors didn't get permanently saturated. I dropped to zero subs and I was clean for a few months after which I was prescribed 5mg hydrocodone 2x per day. That little 5mg felt as good as 50 would have a few months prior; it takes awhile, but your receptors will bounce back.

Good luck, since it seem like you are using just to keep your w/d at bay - that's always been hard for me; a couple feel good and a few more feel better. I think we all want to get clean eventually, but that's easier said than done. I feel like my family and colleagues never mind or notice when I'm using, but only when I'm struggling to stop. It sounds like you have a plan and a supportive doc, which seems like me to be a great start.

Good luck brother

I agree with you that the bupe does block out MOST feeling I get from the oxy, but not all. For instance, I took my last 1mg of bupe a week ago, and I now feel the full affects of the oxy. But during this past week, I was taking enough oxy to eliminate WD symptoms (around 30/40mg per day).
I can see how bupe can be a very slippery slope.. I talked with my doc about this and he likes the idea of weening off the Percocets, and giving Kratom more of a shot. I have used Kratom in the past and it truly is a god send…

Here is my problem; I take the Oxy for the pain I get from my Crohn’s disease, which is a gastrointestinal disease. So the Kratom can be a little harsh on my system.

So the solution my doctor and I discussed is as follows: stay away from the bupe and slowly ween myself down to 5-10mg of oxy per day, and perhaps stabilize on that dose. I have benefited from lose dose oxy. I’m curious to see how the Kratom would help a crohns flare in the future when I do get down to 5-10mg per day. In the past, I would just take more oxy, but I know this isn’t a good long term solution. I also feel like if my receptors are not too saturated, I will benefit more from the Kratom. I’m so thankful my doctor is progressive and is open to helping me get through all of this in different ways..
trial and error.. He just demands I stay honest with him.

Keep us updated of your progress, and I’ll be sure to do the same.
Good luck!

 

[Heroes Inc.]

Indeed. We are giving it our best.. it’s all we can do.

 

[Opana313]

I'm so glad to hear you have found some relief.
Very true statement that you made there, about family and friends never know when you are keeping yourself high, but only when it comes time to stop. It's because we of course get sick, and irritable which leads to being less compassionate. It's so rough..ready to quit but never ready to be sick and then depression.

 

[Heroes Inc.]

You are lucky to have an open minded doc. I had one once years ago, but not anymore. I have a brother with Crohn's and it truly sounds awful. I remember enjoying slow moving bowels while taking hydrocodone so much I almost suggested it to him actually. My gut has been mostly fucked up since I stopped suboxone, only got better after like 3 months and by then I was taking hydrocodone again for surgical pain.

I also had similar experience with subs - I'd think 1mg after a week, you'd get some relief from oxy. I think you'll find 40mg down to 10 will be hard, but if you augment with the kratom, you'll be fine. I'm an expert now after 3 days lol.

but I have been dealing with addiction for many years so unfortunately I'm a real expert there. So I can tell you that my receptors didn't get permanently saturated. I dropped to zero subs and I was clean for a few months after which I was prescribed 5mg hydrocodone 2x per day. That little 5mg felt as good as 50 would have a few months prior; it takes awhile, but your receptors will bounce back.

Good luck, since it seem like you are using just to keep your w/d at bay - that's always been hard for me; a couple feel good and a few more feel better. I think we all want to get clean eventually, but that's easier said than done. I feel like my family and colleagues never mind or notice when I'm using, but only when I'm struggling to stop. It sounds like you have a plan and a supportive doc, which seems like me to be a great start.

Good luck brother

I come to the realization that getting absolutely clean is not what I want in my life. I was to be able to control my drug use. Low does oxy is the goal for opiates.. but then I’m like to have Kratom as my back up for bad crohns flares. And I will always continue to micro dose psilocybin… it’s a wonderful drug. Also, just had a bit of really good cocaine last night at a party. It was fantastic. Probably had half a G. The one thing I’m proud I have eliminated is booze, mostly (I did have two with the blow, because it’s way better) I use to drink too much, but not I’m mellow just having 2/3 occasionally.

All drugs should be legalized, first and foremost. It will help the majority of the population out. I truly believe I’m a better person on the substances and staying true to a plan.

 

[phall]

I've seen ppl tapering subs for years from not massive amounts. Maybe it's necessary if there's no replacement.
Doctors talk a lot about rebound pain after long use. I'm not sure where I stand on that. The one thing I've felt myself and noticed in others is the ability to deal with shit is reduced over long lengths of time using. Ppl either get aggesive or emotional when dealing with hard times which leads to more usage.I
Kratom is great for periods of wd but my personal opinion is it carries more hidden dangers than we realise if used daily for long periods.
u commented at the start about it taking a year to feel normal when stopping. My first time after like a decade using I think it was a few weeks till I slept at all. Few months before I felt like socializing and maybe 18 months to get 8hours sleep and even then I'm dreaming of where I hid shit . Something that happens years later in my experiencr.

Gl guy

 

[drjunkie]

I come tI the realization that getting absolutely clean is not what I want in my life. I was to be able to control my drug use. Low does oxy is the goal for opiates.. but then I’m like to have Kratom as my back up for bad crohns flares. And I will always continue to micro dose psilocybin… it’s a wonderful drug. Also, just had a bit of really good cocaine last night at a party. It was fantastic. Probably had half a G. The one thing I’m proud I have eliminated is booze, mostly (I did have two with the blow, because it’s way better) I use to drink too much, but not I’m mellow just having 2/3 occasionally.

All drugs should be legalized, first and foremost. It will help the majority of the population out. I truly believe I’m a better person on the substances and staying true to a plane.

this all makes sense to me. I totally agreed on the legalization question, we have lost the war on drugs and better to just surrender and free up our law enforcement resources to combat actual crime, which of course will be much easier without all the crime related to illicit drug sales.

I have had the same experience - after about 2 years of active addiction, starting with 20mg hydrocodone, ending at about 250mg I got clean for just over a week but I couldn't take the cravings and I figured I'd end up using heroin or getting a bad batch of fake oxy online so I started taking suboxone. I used that for 6 years and got clean for 3 months in 2016 but after a shoulder surgery I couldn't make it stick and went back to suboxone. One, of a few, issues I have with NA is the complete abstinence which somehow does not extend to smoking. I don't know if I'll ever use nothing, but I can't be out of control. It took becoming an opiate addict for me to realize I have no issue with alcohol. I had a little bourbon last nite but I never crave it nor feel like I can't stop or have drank too much. But I agree it's not a good poison.

Kicked subs in January, 2 weeks of hell followed by months of exhaustion, depression, barely getting up to do my job... it was horrible. I was also taking prescribed adderall and clonazepam at that point. Kicked it all over that period, but never felt right since. I had neck/spine surgery in June and just gave up and took the prescribed hydrocodone. But when that ran out I wasn't handling it until I found kratom. I get an occasional small fill of hydrocodone, which I don't mind but I swear it actually makes my pain worse.

Alcohol is the worst option it seems, but the easiest and most acceptable. I don't like pot, I hever have, but I do have some gummies I use when I can't sleep and man they work great. Yesterday I bought some kratom powder since it seems more efficient than the pills, but man it's nasty, I don't know how to take it. Just been mixing with water and trying to keep it down.

Before all this I remember waking up happy and motivated some days, but I also remember runaway panic attacks and anxiety that I don't have anymore.

All this to say I agree with you, I just have to find some manageable cadence. It's too risky to score pain pills anywhere but the doc so gratefully that avenue is self limiting. I'd like to think I can use the kratom sort of like suboxone without being hooked on something that's impossible to get off. The question then is is this permanent now or can I taper off the kratom? I'd like to think I can but I'm not dwelling on it right now. Trying to enjoy feeling normal, getting shit done around here and being present for my family.

 

[drjunkie]

I've seen ppl tapering subs for years from not massive amounts. Maybe it's necessary if there's no replacement.
Doctors talk a lot about rebound pain after long use. I'm not sure where I stand on that. The one thing I've felt myself and noticed in others is the ability to deal with shit is reduced over long lengths of time using. Ppl either get aggesive or emotional when dealing with hard times which leads to more usage.I
Kratom is great for periods of wd but my personal opinion is it carries more hidden dangers than we realise if used daily for long periods.
u commented at the start about it taking a year to feel normal when stopping. My first time after like a decade using I think it was a few weeks till I slept at all. Few months before I felt like socializing and maybe 18 months to get 8hours sleep and even then I'm dreaming of where I hid shit . Something that happens years later in my experiencr.

Gl guy

this sounds familiar. Only now am I getting good sleep and it's been 8 months since I got off subs and only then by taking pot gummies b4 bed And I'm not saying anything bad about subs, I think it can save you from the perils of addiction and I have friends who are doing great on it. It worked for me too, but over time I became aware it was dulling me, sex was not as good and overall I felt kinda blah but that's way better than I was doing on 25 10mg norco a day. I worry that with kratom I've just traded in one for another for another but I'm also hoping I will be able to taper off on my own. Wish me luck

 

[phall]

our brain chemistry takes a long long time to return unfortunately. the older we get and more times we relapse the longer it takes.
funny story i spoke to a guy earlier (referring to dreaming about heroin). i say id get dreams about finding bags id hid or cooking even a year after stopping. he replies yea so do i and i quit 20 years ago lol.

like you say you have friends doing well on it , it seems issues start when u stop to be kinda obvious. maybe these 5 year tapers are really necessary for the mental side of addiction. ppl argue but then how many are still clean.

im not sure how others take kratom, i find just washing it straight down, failing that make into really sweet tea with milk. i also started selling it so bought a pill maker. u can get empty capsules on amazon etc , or just buy kratom capsules for a bit more dough. be careful with kratom, listen to your body.

gl bud

 

[drjunkie]

Today I just mixed it with water and pushed it down, seemed to go ok. Your 'be careful' comment makes me think, or rather makes me be honest with myself that there is no easy way out of this. That just trading norco for kratom isn't a real solution. However, I don't have to beg to get kratom and I don't feel like I want more and more and more while I'm taking it. Hydrocodone seemed to be something I could not say no to and I just don't feel that way about kratom, but I'm also aware that I didn't always feel that way about hydrocodone. As far as listening to my body goes, I do feel like it's more of that than chasing the high now. I take kratom when I feel withdrawl, but not past that. I dunno, I'll keep coming here and talking about it, but that begs a question: one thing I did like about NA was the connection, at least the Zoom meeting connection to other addicts. Is there something like that that isn't NA that you guys know about?