Venting Are psychedelics the best thing in life? Cause I can't take most of them...

[Mycophile]

Ok, so, I may have to elaborate on this thread later on, as there's a lot I want to ask.

This thread isn't only about psychedelics, but asking people about things in general which have helped them make the most positive changes in their lives, and move forward towards peace of mind, happiness, and even enlightenment.

I'll try to be summarize how I feel:

I have anxiety, OCD, Non Verbal Learning Disability and depression. I'm 42 and feel I haven't lived the kind of life i want to. I haven't experienced enough, and I feel like I'm having a midlife crisis. I'M BAD AT MAKING CHANGES IN MY LIFE.

I'm always looking for "the next big thing" I can do or achieve to "save myself from a life of regret." I do Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and martial arts with the goal of having an amateur MMA fight cause part of me is convinced I can never be happy if I can't do that as it's always been a dream and a fear of mine I want to overcome, and maybe I'm too old, so I worry about that not being possible. I have almost always had a complex at each stage in my life: when i stop worrying about one thing then another pops up. I used to have the same complex that I'd be happy when I got with a specific girl, which didn't in the end work or make me happy, so i realized i was wrong there. I like drugs like kratom, alcohol, weed, phenibut, nitrous, shrooms, etc, but of course, they don't make me happy, just temporary fun.

I have been on prozac for 28 years for OCD and social anxiety (actually 4-5 give or take on Lexapro, then back on Prozac) so most psychedelics either don't work or are dangerous, though I have gotten effects from shrooms and LSD that are blunted, but still some somewhat good experiences, only rarely visuals. I have been on Klonopin for 19 years and I really want to quit Klonopin and caffeine which i also have a problem with. I am always drinking too much coffee out of tiredness from the Klonopin, then that makes me anxious and hard to fall asleep, so I take Klonopin which makes me tired. Soon I'm going to ask my psychiatrist to help me get off Klonopin and caffeine to feel better, but prozac? MUCH harder IMO, as i will probably need it to deal with the OCD symptoms even more once off Klonopin and have been on it longer.

So basically, I am always hearing about these AMAZING life changing experiences you guys and others have on: Ayahuasca, Ibogaine, DMT, 5-Meo DMT, and all the other numerous alphabet psychs, and I'm jealous and feel I'm missing out.

I want so badly to do SOMETHING, ANYTHING that could bring about positive change in my life and make me stop hating my life and myself, and there's nothing other than having an MMA fight that seems like it might help me more than a REALLY positive trip on something like Ayahuasca, Ibogaine, DMT or 5-Meo DMT.....BUT I CAN'T TAKE MOST OF THESE DRUGS CAUSE OF PROZAC AND WILL QUITE POSSIBLY BE ON IT FOR LIFE!!!!

I have heard of others feeling like me breaking out of their depression and changing their lives through these things, but NOPE, not me, I can't, and it makes me REALLY depressed.

But it's not like I'm ONLY looking to psychedelics for change. Like I said, I will look for ANYTHING to feel better about life. I'm a searcher. Some other things I try include: martial arts, playing/listening to music, The Wim Hof method (breathing exercises with cold showers and ice baths), psychotherapy and other therapies, neurofeeback, meditation, hypnosis, isolation tank, sweat lodge, and other things I'm forgetting now.

I haven't sky dived, but if that will help, I'll do it. Same for bungee jumping. I OFTEN THINK A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE WOULD HELP. Which is why some psychedelics seem like a good choice. I WANT TO BE SHOCKED INTO APPRECIATING WHAT I HAVE IN LIFE....THAT'S THE END ALL BE ALL OF WHAT I'M SAYING.

I don't like to travel, don't like change, but if I have to go travel to wherever to appreciate my life, then maybe that's the trick. I don't believe in changing my life by meeting the woman of my dreams or some shit like that...honestly, I think trying to find happiness in another person is a BAD idea. That's desperation and bringing another person down. So yeah, not one of those thinking that sex or love or even friendship will do it.

If community service or helping others would do it, I'd try that too.

So...I think I have made this long enough.

Questions then:

1) Do you think psychedelics and possibly certain other drugs are the single greatest thing on earth, and that they allow people to be able to make more positive changes in their lives than anything else by changing their perspectives? Cause many seem to think so, and again, MOST are out of the question for me if I can't get off prozac. I dream of going to Peru to trip on Ayahuasca or some other country for Ibogaine, but it ain't happening.

2) What positive experiences have you had THAT ARE NOT RELATED TO DRUGS, that have really changed your life for the better, and made you think differently about yourself PERMANENTLY? It could be anything. It might be something you pursued on a regular or semi-regular basis for years as a practice/discipline, or something you only did once or a few times.

I just want to shock myself out of my current state.

With half my fucking life over, I WANT TO FUCKING LIVE. And if my prozac makes most psychedelics out of the question due to risk of serotonin syndrome, then I sure as fuck better find SOMETHING...

I'm very interested in hearing about any and all life changing experiences people have had, with or without drugs, but ESPECIALLY WITHOUT THEM.

 

[Neuroborean]

Honestly, I'm not a physician and so on but...
Do you plan taking prozac forever? I think that's the point. In USA it's normal for people to take antidepressants, in my country it's very unusual for men to be medicated with anti-depressants, is more typical of middle aged women, and some are medicated "for life" with horrible outcomes like total loss of libido and dependence.
What I try to say is that you probably need prozac only for a while, if you take prozac and a lot of stuff more (alcohol, cannabis, kratom..) then probably your prozac is helping less than you think.
There's natural alternatives to prozac, kanna, St.Johns Wort and some other stuff like that, I don't even think you must use a SSRI for depression since there's other pathways that are more effective than the sero pathway. Have you study anything about ayurveda? hindus have a lot of deep, old knowledge about human body and how it can be unbalanced.
I'm now studying about haritaki, it seems an amazing herb that surely can help a lot, and a lot of people.
You're very lucky on that you're on prozac instead of shit like pristiq,... that's very difficult to stop. Prozac it's much more easy to end with.
Maybe you could ask for a less sero-oriented antidepressant like bupropion and then, eventually, quit slowly (if you decide to), there's surely better ways to not be depressed than taking prozac for a long time.
I think wellbutrin (bupropion) it's less problematic when mixing with psychs. At least that's what I could gather reading reports. It seems to mix specially good with shrooms.

1) psychedelics are great when you are "in the mood" for them and specially when you have a lot of doubts about life and you're adventurous by nature, like when you're 18-25, then they are very helpful, but you're normally wise enough not to need them (it's not like you "need" them before but.. I guess they're more helpful). If the realizations you get on drugs work long-term-ish is because you integrate them, and integrate a realization without changing your life according to your new "belief", it's not possible. So it's never like and instant enlightment that falls from heaven and stay with you...

2) playing music has changed my life, since 18, it's what makes me less prone to loss hope on life or get depressed, I just enjoy it so much. Reading philosophy, once you get into it was also pretty helpful. Some sport that could help you to feel getting better and better overtime, like surfing or climbing, that's pretty useful too. It's something that you gain confidence with along with the discipline you built around it, but it's because it's fun, not because you need to do a big effort. Could be harder at the beginning but if you don't start enjoying it much, then it's not your thing. Antidepressant lead normally to low-key anhedonia

I also think (like you I mean) the worst thing, the worst trap, is the idea of anyone that could "save you" or you can "save" in terms of love relationships, that would never help you, it will drain you. I guess the same can be said about most "friendships" if you hope too much about them.

 

[Mjäll]

Serotonin syndrome is not really the big issue and not a high risk with this combo. Rather, you won't get as strong an effect from psychedelics, as you've already observed.

I think you should try getting off prozac, slowly. But i'm not your doctor.

You don't need psychedelics to grow as a person, no. Anything that challenges your mind will help.

FWIW i suspect that antidepressants may inhibit natural spiritual experiences in a similar way it does to psychedelic drug experiences. Many people complain that they feel emotionally blunted while on them.

 

[Neuroborean]

FWIW i suspect that antidepressants may inhibit natural spiritual experiences in a similar way it does to psychedelic drug experiences. Many people complain that they feel emotionally blunted while on them.

Yeah, I totally agree on that, they just dull life, normally pain is necessary to grow as a person and strong mystic experiences or spiritual connections only come when you're not using anything that dulls life, including things like alcohol, cannabis or kratom.

 

[Asclepius]

Just leaving this here w/ref. to title.

Your genes may impact psychedelic experiences

UNC researchers have found evidence that the genetic makeup of a crucial receptor may impact your psychedelic experience.

develop.freethink.com

 

[Mycophile]

Serotonin syndrome is not really the big issue and not a high risk with this combo. Rather, you won't get as strong an effect from psychedelics, as you've already observed.

I think you should try getting off prozac, slowly. But i'm not your doctor.

You don't need psychedelics to grow as a person, no. Anything that challenges your mind will help.

FWIW i suspect that antidepressants may inhibit natural spiritual experiences in a similar way it does to psychedelic drug experiences. Many people complain that they feel emotionally blunted while on them.

what "combo"?

Because most posters on here would disagree that it isn't EXTREMELY dangerous to take Ayahuasca, Ibogaine, Harmala or any other number of psychedelics while on prozac. Many people have died from serotonin syndrome mixing things like prozac with Ayahuasca, and even if it WASN'T dangerous, it not working is still an issue.

And I'm not trying to get off prozac right now. Honestly, i am going to soon try to quit Klonopin and caffeine and only after that if I can do it will I find out what my brain and level of anxiety, ocd and depression is like now after all these years on that, and all I'd have to rely on for my issues would be prozac.

ONLY THEN would I even be able to consider VERY VERY slowly tapering off prozac.

I don't think my prozac inhibits natural spiritual experiences either. I do Wim Hof breathing and have a few times had some strong almost psychedelic experiences through that.

I think spiritual experiences are hard to have without drugs period, but I don't know that I think prozac makes them harder.

But thanks for your support.

 

[Mycophile]

Honestly, I'm not a physician and so on but...
Do you plan taking prozac forever? I think that's the point. In USA it's normal for people to take antidepressants, in my country it's very unusual for men to be medicated with anti-depressants, is more typical of middle aged women, and some are medicated "for life" with horrible outcomes like total loss of libido and dependence.
What I try to say is that you probably need prozac only for a while, if you take prozac and a lot of stuff more (alcohol, cannabis, kratom..) then probably your prozac is helping less than you think.
There's natural alternatives to prozac, kanna, St.Johns Wort and some other stuff like that, I don't even think you must use a SSRI for depression since there's other pathways that are more effective than the sero pathway. Have you study anything about ayurveda? hindus have a lot of deep, old knowledge about human body and how it can be unbalanced.
I'm now studying about haritaki, it seems an amazing herb that surely can help a lot, and a lot of people.
You're very lucky on that you're on prozac instead of shit like pristiq,... that's very difficult to stop. Prozac it's much more easy to end with.
Maybe you could ask for a less sero-oriented antidepressant like bupropion and then, eventually, quit slowly (if you decide to), there's surely better ways to not be depressed than taking prozac for a long time.
I think wellbutrin (bupropion) it's less problematic when mixing with psychs. At least that's what I could gather reading reports. It seems to mix specially good with shrooms.

1) psychedelics are great when you are "in the mood" for them and specially when you have a lot of doubts about life and you're adventurous by nature, like when you're 18-25, then they are very helpful, but you're normally wise enough not to need them (it's not like you "need" them before but.. I guess they're more helpful). If the realizations you get on drugs work long-term-ish is because you integrate them, and integrate a realization without changing your life according to your new "belief", it's not possible. So it's never like and instant enlightment that falls from heaven and stay with you...

2) playing music has changed my life, since 18, it's what makes me less prone to loss hope on life or get depressed, I just enjoy it so much. Reading philosophy, once you get into it was also pretty helpful. Some sport that could help you to feel getting better and better overtime, like surfing or climbing, that's pretty useful too. It's something that you gain confidence with along with the discipline you built around it, but it's because it's fun, not because you need to do a big effort. Could be harder at the beginning but if you don't start enjoying it much, then it's not your thing. Antidepressant lead normally to low-key anhedonia

I also think (like you I mean) the worst thing, the worst trap, is the idea of anyone that could "save you" or you can "save" in terms of love relationships, that would never help you, it will drain you. I guess the same can be said about most "friendships" if you hope too much about them.

Thanks for you well thought out response. Well, as far as whether or not I'll need prozac for life, I actually might, and I really don't know as that's more of a question for a psychiatrist or neurologist.

I'm 42 and have taken it for 28 years, so that's 2/3rds of my life. That's A LONG TIME to depend on it. The only time a doctor tried to taper me too quickly i got 4 months of insomnia where I only slept 4 hours each night and it didn't go away till i got back on a full dose of prozac and that was 19 years ago.

Like i said, I don't take it for depression, but for OCD and social anxiety. I have very bad anxiety with eye contact that only prozac worked for from age 14-23 and then I started drinking too much coffee and had a horrible panic attack in public and needed klonopin as prozac was no longer enough. Right now, my life is MUCH more negatively effected by how tired klonopin makes me and how anxious coffee makes me, so my goal is to first get off those 2. Only then will I know whether or not prozac alone is enough for my issues.

But yes, there are many other interesting herbs I'd love to try, and maybe some could replace prozac, but then if they could would I be able to trip on those? The only really big reason I want to get off prozac is to trip. It has never caused me negative side effects, never hurt my libido or sex drive even though that happens with some people.

Also, the truth is i don't take other drugs THAT often. I actually use naltrexone to purposefully induce periods of sobriety. Then every now and then I go off it and have fun drinking, kratom, weed, and once in a while phenibut, but I don't use any drugs other than my meds and caffeine on a regular basis, so I don't believe that that makes me more likely to need it. Honestly, caffeine is the worst thing for my mental health and is probably why I need Klonopin, and why I need to quit coffee, and I've tried many times, but because the Klonopin makes me tired, I also need to quit that. Being on klonopin without any caffeine would make me like a zombie.

I don't know about Ayurveda or haritaki. Those send very interesting. I do study Wim Hof breathing which is a breathing technique which stimulates DMT and melatonin in the brain and then you take cold showers and ice baths and mix it with a little yoga. I have been slacking off on it lately but I did it a lot before and it helped and I'm going to get back to it.

So then a few questions for you:

1) Can you take haritaki on prozac and klonopin, and what exactly does it do for you?

2) How could I get into Ayurveda? Like, what does it involve? Where would i start as a beginner?

3) Are there any other things you can think of that you'd recommend to someone wanting to find a way to change their life through positive experiences? What do you think about the idea of trying to do a lot more shit that scares me? Cause I know I have to confront more fears.

4) What are the other "pathways" by which one deals with anxiety, OCD and depression other than serotonin and GABA? (My anxiety is worse than my depression to be honest, it's really OCD and generalized anxiety disorder, but some depression too.

Also, what country are you from?

 

[Mycophile]

Just leaving this here w/ref. to title.

Your genes may impact psychedelic experiences

UNC researchers have found evidence that the genetic makeup of a crucial receptor may impact your psychedelic experience.

develop.freethink.com

Thanks.

This is interesting, but I'm not sure how it would help me...

 

[Mycophile]

So, to take this question a bit further and clarify that this thread isn't only about psychedelics, what positive life changing experiences that DON'T involve drugs have people here had??

Is there anything anyone has done, whether it was 1 time, 5 times, or something you have been doing for years on a regular basis, that has changed your outlook on life for the better, so that you feel more at peace, happier, and less anxious, and appreciate your life more??

 

[Mycophile]

Honestly, I'm not a physician and so on but...
Do you plan taking prozac forever? I think that's the point. In USA it's normal for people to take antidepressants, in my country it's very unusual for men to be medicated with anti-depressants, is more typical of middle aged women, and some are medicated "for life" with horrible outcomes like total loss of libido and dependence.
What I try to say is that you probably need prozac only for a while, if you take prozac and a lot of stuff more (alcohol, cannabis, kratom..) then probably your prozac is helping less than you think.
There's natural alternatives to prozac, kanna, St.Johns Wort and some other stuff like that, I don't even think you must use a SSRI for depression since there's other pathways that are more effective than the sero pathway. Have you study anything about ayurveda? hindus have a lot of deep, old knowledge about human body and how it can be unbalanced.
I'm now studying about haritaki, it seems an amazing herb that surely can help a lot, and a lot of people.
You're very lucky on that you're on prozac instead of shit like pristiq,... that's very difficult to stop. Prozac it's much more easy to end with.
Maybe you could ask for a less sero-oriented antidepressant like bupropion and then, eventually, quit slowly (if you decide to), there's surely better ways to not be depressed than taking prozac for a long time.
I think wellbutrin (bupropion) it's less problematic when mixing with psychs. At least that's what I could gather reading reports. It seems to mix specially good with shrooms.

1) psychedelics are great when you are "in the mood" for them and specially when you have a lot of doubts about life and you're adventurous by nature, like when you're 18-25, then they are very helpful, but you're normally wise enough not to need them (it's not like you "need" them before but.. I guess they're more helpful). If the realizations you get on drugs work long-term-ish is because you integrate them, and integrate a realization without changing your life according to your new "belief", it's not possible. So it's never like and instant enlightment that falls from heaven and stay with you...

2) playing music has changed my life, since 18, it's what makes me less prone to loss hope on life or get depressed, I just enjoy it so much. Reading philosophy, once you get into it was also pretty helpful. Some sport that could help you to feel getting better and better overtime, like surfing or climbing, that's pretty useful too. It's something that you gain confidence with along with the discipline you built around it, but it's because it's fun, not because you need to do a big effort. Could be harder at the beginning but if you don't start enjoying it much, then it's not your thing. Antidepressant lead normally to low-key anhedonia

I also think (like you I mean) the worst thing, the worst trap, is the idea of anyone that could "save you" or you can "save" in terms of love relationships, that would never help you, it will drain you. I guess the same can be said about most "friendships" if you hope too much about them.

Also, wouldn't you disagree with Mjall that many psychedelics like Ayahuasca, Ibogaine, Harmaline, MAOIs and other such things can be very dangerous on prozac??

Everything I have heard says that strong MAOIs and strong serotonergic agents are VERY dangerous on SSRIs.

I have tripped on shrooms and LSD and salvia, and i don't believe those are dangerous with prozac, but my trips are usually less intense I think that they would be for most people. I am going to try to grow shrooms again and see what higher doses and also micro doses do to help me, but still, there are so many other psychs out there I want to try but can't.

 

[Asclepius]

Thanks.

This is interesting, but I'm not sure how it would help me...

That's info; pertenant to your question; how you integrate the sense of it, is for you to figure out, I guess.

 

[Neuroborean]

Also, wouldn't you disagree with Mjall that many psychedelics like Ayahuasca, Ibogaine, Harmaline, MAOIs and other such things can be very dangerous on prozac??

Everything I have heard says that strong MAOIs and strong serotonergic agents are VERY dangerous on SSRIs.

I have tripped on shrooms and LSD and salvia, and i don't believe those are dangerous with prozac, but my trips are usually less intense I think that they would be for most people. I am going to try to grow shrooms again and see what higher doses and also micro doses do to help me, but still, there are so many other psychs out there I want to try but can't.

I agree with the fact that obviously harmaline/ MAOis and prozac is a terrible idea. I have no idea about the pharmacology of ibogaine and some other psychs.. not sure. I know they are serotonin agonists and they mimic serotonin, but if they are not releasers or reuptake inhibitors in a big degree I think they are not a problem and ADs just blunt the effects of psychs. That's why I think wellbutrin is better suited for psychs, in general.

 

[Neuroborean]

Thanks for you well thought out response. Well, as far as whether or not I'll need prozac for life, I actually might, and I really don't know as that's more of a question for a psychiatrist or neurologist.

I'm 42 and have taken it for 28 years, so that's 2/3rds of my life. That's A LONG TIME to depend on it. The only time a doctor tried to taper me too quickly i got 4 months of insomnia where I only slept 4 hours each night and it didn't go away till i got back on a full dose of prozac and that was 19 years ago.

Like i said, I don't take it for depression, but for OCD and social anxiety. I have very bad anxiety with eye contact that only prozac worked for from age 14-23 and then I started drinking too much coffee and had a horrible panic attack in public and needed klonopin as prozac was no longer enough. Right now, my life is MUCH more negatively effected by how tired klonopin makes me and how anxious coffee makes me, so my goal is to first get off those 2. Only then will I know whether or not prozac alone is enough for my issues.

But yes, there are many other interesting herbs I'd love to try, and maybe some could replace prozac, but then if they could would I be able to trip on those? The only really big reason I want to get off prozac is to trip. It has never caused me negative side effects, never hurt my libido or sex drive even though that happens with some people.

Also, the truth is i don't take other drugs THAT often. I actually use naltrexone to purposefully induce periods of sobriety. Then every now and then I go off it and have fun drinking, kratom, weed, and once in a while phenibut, but I don't use any drugs other than my meds and caffeine on a regular basis, so I don't believe that that makes me more likely to need it. Honestly, caffeine is the worst thing for my mental health and is probably why I need Klonopin, and why I need to quit coffee, and I've tried many times, but because the Klonopin makes me tired, I also need to quit that. Being on klonopin without any caffeine would make me like a zombie.

I don't know about Ayurveda or haritaki. Those send very interesting. I do study Wim Hof breathing which is a breathing technique which stimulates DMT and melatonin in the brain and then you take cold showers and ice baths and mix it with a little yoga. I have been slacking off on it lately but I did it a lot before and it helped and I'm going to get back to it.

So then a few questions for you:

1) Can you take haritaki on prozac and klonopin, and what exactly does it do for you?

2) How could I get into Ayurveda? Like, what does it involve? Where would i start as a beginner?

3) Are there any other things you can think of that you'd recommend to someone wanting to find a way to change their life through positive experiences? What do you think about the idea of trying to do a lot more shit that scares me? Cause I know I have to confront more fears.

4) What are the other "pathways" by which one deals with anxiety, OCD and depression other than serotonin and GABA? (My anxiety is worse than my depression to be honest, it's really OCD and generalized anxiety disorder, but some depression too.

Also, what country are you from?

I'll reply tomorrow here is quite late (I'm from southern Europe).

 

[Mycophile]

That's info; pertenant to your question; how you intrigate the sense of it, is for you to figure out, I guess.

Yeah, I mean, i just don't know I'd use it. Like someone would run tests on my brain to figure out what psychedelics I should or shouldn't take, not to mention the meds I'm on?

Just not sure how it would be used, not that it isn't pertinent to the question.

 

[Mycophile]

I agree with the fact that obviously harmaline/ MAOis and prozac is a terrible idea. I have no idea about the pharmacology of ibogaine and some other psychs.. not sure. I know they are serotonin agonists and they mimic serotonin, but if they are not releasers or reuptake inhibitors in a big degree I think they are not a problem and ADs just blunt the effects of psychs. That's why I think wellbutrin is better suited for psychs, in general.

I have heard that things like Ayahuasca are extremely dangerous mixed with it because it contains an MAOI, which is the whole reason why the DMT containing plants in the brew last as long as they do. I don't know as much about Ibogaine, 5-Meo DMT, and all these other psychedelics, but when I've asked this question before in the psychedelics section most people seem to respond that AT BEST SSRIs blunt effects, and at worst, make things very dangerous.

Like, I'd also like to try DXM, but that is definitely dangerous with SSRIs. And really again, if the effects would be non-existent there's no point in experimentation even if it's safe.

However, I guess you could mention shrooms and LSD, those are somewhat blunted, but they are better understood. It's all the psychs I want to try for the most part that I have my doubts about.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

They're pretty low-down on the euphoric drugs ladder.
Opioids and stimulants are way more euphoric.
Even Xanax tbh.

 

[Mycophile]

They're pretty low-down on the euphoric drugs ladder.
Opioids and stimulants are way more euphoric.
Even Xanax tbh.

Yeah, so I've heard.

I've had good feelings from kratom, oxy, hydro, etc. My klonopin gives me no euphoria and I've never used Xanax, and I can't take MDMA and wouldn't take something like heroin, so I don't know about those.

But really, I am not talking about ability to induce euphoria, I am talking about ability to bring about FEELINGS OF PEACEFULNESS and most of all, lead to insights that can help one to make permanent changes in one's life.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

Hey @Mycophile, I practiced jiu jitsu for a few years up until covid hit. I live with someone who is immunocompromised so I took a break about a year ago. I've been living with schizo-affective disorder with bipolar for nearly 20 years and BJJ has helped a lot as something that is grounding and almost meditative albeit difficult. Besides, strenuous exercise can work wonders for depression although I'm not sure about OCD or anxiety. But I'd venture to believe it could also help with anxiety a bit as well. IMHO fighting in a MMA match could very well be a shock to your life and a near death experience. lol. Besides, an MMA fight would be an accomplishment win or lose and could be considered a "bucket list" item that you could be proud of doing. Regardless of what you choose to do about Prozac, I recommend continuing with jiu jitsu if for anything then as a means to just live a healthier lifestyle, not to mention the self defense aspect of it.

Sounds like you are knowledgeable about the risks associated with ingesting psychedelics while on Prozac. Maybe you could taper off Prozac under the supervision of your psychiatrist, take some trips, and if it isn't helpful, plan to return to the Prozac,

I agree with your assessment about coffee. I quit coffee a decade ago and it was one of the best things I ever did. I found that a healthy diet and restful sleep got me way further than drinking anxiety-inducing coffee just to stay awake. The headaches went away after a couple of days. In fact, maybe quitting coffee will help decrease your anxiety to a more manageable level. Does the BJJ not exhaust you to the point of sleeping well? Like I said, regardless of what you intend to do with your meds, I would try to stick with the martial arts. Don't turn fat and lazy like I've done. FYI once my living situation improves, I do intend to train again.

 

[Mycophile]

Hey @Mycophile, I practiced jiu jitsu for a few years up until covid hit. I live with someone who is immunocompromised so I took a break about a year ago. I've been living with schizo-affective disorder with bipolar for nearly 20 years and BJJ has helped a lot as something that is grounding and almost meditative albeit difficult. Besides, strenuous exercise can work wonders for depression although I'm not sure about OCD or anxiety. But I'd venture to believe it could also help with anxiety a bit as well. IMHO fighting in a MMA match could very well be a shock to your life and a near death experience. lol. Besides, an MMA fight would be an accomplishment win or lose and could be considered a "bucket list" item that you could be proud of doing. Regardless of what you choose to do about Prozac, I recommend continuing with jiu jitsu if for anything then as a means to just live a healthier lifestyle, not to mention the self defense aspect of it.

Sounds like you are knowledgeable about the risks associated with ingesting psychedelics while on Prozac. Maybe you could taper off Prozac under the supervision of your psychiatrist, take some trips, and if it isn't helpful, plan to return to the Prozac,

I agree with your assessment about coffee. I quit coffee a decade ago and it was one of the best things I ever did. I found that a healthy diet and restful sleep got me way further than drinking anxiety-inducing coffee just to stay awake. The headaches went away after a couple of days. In fact, maybe quitting coffee will help decrease your anxiety to a more manageable level. Does the BJJ not exhaust you to the point of sleeping well? Like I said, regardless of what you intend to do with your meds, I would try to stick with the martial arts. Don't turn fat and lazy like I've done. FYI once my living situation improves, I do intend to train again.

Congrats on practicing Jiu-Jitsu. It's a great art isn't it? I'm a brown belt, but like you, I also haven't practiced for over 3 years unfortunately for the exact same reason. My father has a health issue to the extent that despite being vaccinated, if he gets sick it could be very very bad, and I haven't had the money to move out, so I can't train. But I'm probably starting a new job soon (it depends on if a pass a test, it's for proofreading) and then if all goes well I can move out and get back to training.

It REALLY doesn't help that for some messed up reason most people who do MMA and BJJ, including my instructor who is otherwise one of my best friends, are anti-vaxxers. I don't know why, but most of them lean right and are against doing anything about covid, and I really believe that the vaccine actually decreases your chances of spreading if you get covid (at least early studies said it did with the alpha variant) and knowing that these guys just have no regard makes it even less safe to train with them.

Yes, BJJ and martial arts, as well as weight lifting from the several injuries I've gotten through them, helps SOO much with all my issues, anxiety, depression, OCD, you name it. And yes, I've been wanting to have an MMA fight for almost 20 years, thinking that it will be the solution to my problems, which may be a bit much, but I think it would help.

Problem is, I'm 42, and I've had 3 ACL tears, and most of the time people my age don't fight, but then again, my instructor had told me a few years ago he still believed I could do it (we'll have to see if he still feels that way when I get back...) and we had a guy who was in his 40s who fought in several Amateur MMA fights, and it being Amateur rather than pro makes it more likely, but the training regime necessary is difficult to get through. It's the reason I tore my ACLs 3 times and couldn't make it to the ring: I just kept getting hurt. But regardless, I won't give up and will go back and start all over and see if I can make my dream come true, even at my age.

And no, I didn't get fat, I mean, I did before and have struggled with my weight for years, but 1 year ago I discovered intermittent fasting and it's been a lifesaver and I've lost all the weight. I HIGHLY recommend it as a way to not only lose weight and keep it off, but just be more healthy. Humans really don't need to eat as often or as much as we think we do, and you can get some great clarity of mind while in ketosis, not to mention it going well with the breathing exercises in Wim Hof breathing which you may want to try. It is a mix of breathing exercises that activate DMT and Melatonin, yoga, cold showers and ice baths, and it is very good for mental health and also for martial arts. Many BJJ guys and MMA guys do it. Maybe you might want to give it a shot.

Yes, absolutely every time I have managed to get off caffeine or even cut down my anxiety is reduced SOOO much. I mean it's the whole reason I even need Klonopin (plus underlying issues of course) and last time i was able to quit coffee I was down to 0.5mg of klonopin a day, sleeping better and calm, but for some reason it's part of my OCD to drink coffee, and I got addicted again and my klonopin use went back up again too. I don't know why, but I have a phobia of being tired unless it's time for bed (being sleepy, not being physically tired from exercise) so it's like every time i feel tired during the day I run to grab coffee and feel I can't stop myself. Then the caffeine makes me more obsessive compulsive, so it's a vicious cycle.

Soon though, probably sometime in late September or October (I have reasons for my timeline but not necessary to go into it) I'm going to talk to my psychiatrist again and ask him how to taper klonopin while I attempt to taper caffeine using a caffeine pill tapering program i bought but have never tried, and hopefully it works. One of my worries about that though is whether or not I can still sometimes drink alcohol and take kratom but not drink coffee, because both of those can lead to tiredness (hangovers and kratom WD) and I wonder if I can be off caffeine but still use some substances. And of course, that's something else I am obsessing over haha.

The happiest I've been in years was 9 years ago when I really thought my fight was going to happen, and i was barely drinking coffee or taking klonopin, but then in a tournament on my 33rd birthday a guy tore my wrist in a brown belt division. After that, while out rehabbing the wrist, no one told me that my having already torn both my ACLs meant I should NEVER stop physical therapy for them, because your legs get weak, and then as soon as I went back I tore my left ACL a 2nd time (3 total). I never was quite the same mentally after that, but I still went back to training, and now I rehab my legs and neck religiously (i also have neck probs but they don't bother me anymore cause I lift so frequently.)

I think the reason it's harder for me to enjoy BJJ is because I obsess so much over wanting to have a fight, and I sometimes practically ruin it for myself and don't want to go because then I obsess over not being good enough, whereas before I had this dream I just loved every second of training. OCD really ruins everything: when you obsess you kill what you love, and I can obsess over just about anything LOL.

Anyways, I digress, but good luck getting back to your training, and thanks for your support.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

Yes, I love jiu jitsu. I'm only a blue belt and am trying very hard not to be the cliche blue belt who quits and never returns. But covid hit everyone by surprise and I'm with you on the anti vax bullshit amongst BJJ practitioners. I think it's at least partly influenced by people like Joe Rogan who claim training alone and being in shape is enough to "boost" one's immunity to covid. And now there is monkeypox to worry about. fml

Obviously I didn't realize about all your injuries with regards to training and MMA. I didn't start jiu jitsu until I was like 38 and have had my fair share of injuries myself. Be careful out there!

I will look into the intermittent fasting and Wim Hofman breathing. Is that anything like the intense stomach breathing that Rickson Gracie does?

In addition to quitting coffee, I also gave up alcohol about 4 or 5 years ago. Now all I do is smoke weed sometimes and take my psych meds, which of course prevent me from taking psychedelics as well. Anyways, I really hope you can get control over your ailments including OCD. Good luck, man!