⭐️ Social ⭐️ Bunk kratom and the state of the US market

[Snafu in the Void]

Edit: so turns out I now have heavy metal poisoning from this shit kratom. Lead, nickel and arsenic. I always knew this was a possibility, but didn't make the connection until it was too late. I am having a dozen shitty symptoms now including severe ones like difficulty breathing, irregular heart rate, chest pains, persistent headache and strong mental fog.

I am never buying headshop kratom ever again, you should avoid it at all cost. It used to be decent, but the kratom market expanded so rapidly they've begun sourcing it from the worst of the worst farmers who do not test their soil for these contaminants.

South East Asian soil is notorious for being contaminated with lead, as well as nickel, cadmium and arsenic.

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I've had a pretty good pulse on the kratom quality over the last 10 years and recently I have noticed a very sharp increase in the amount of horribly bad kratom going around, potentially dangerous stuff.

Note I am not talking about stuff from small businesses, but the commercial stuff you find in headshops and the bigger brands, although this could effect all of it.

I believe several large distributors have switched suppliers to a highly inferior product.

It's not just low quality stuff I'm griping about, but stuff that doesn't have any effect at all other than horrible side effects.

This bad stuff:
-No detectable opioid effects at ANY dose (even with zero tolerance), only a very mild and crappy stimulant effect-- and not a good stim either. Overall there is almost no effect at all, other than it makes you feel like shit for 8 hours.
- persistent headache that doesn't respond to acetaminophen or NSAIDs
- persistent stomach ache & nausea
- awful, extremely bitter taste (relative to good kratom)

Visually this stuff looks normal, but it smells very bad. Good kratom has a deep earthy smell, and a sweet tinge to it which I assume are the sugars in the leaf.

This bad stuff smells bitter, old, dry almost rancid and has a distinct bitter chemical smell. It does not have that earthy sweet smell at all. It leaves a very bad bitter taste in your mouth, I actually love the taste of good kratom, but this tastes toxic.

I suspect this stuff is potentially dangerous because the headache and stomach ache feel very unnatural, and not due to alkaloids but something toxic in it.

This isn't exactly sketchy gas station brands either. I have noticed at least 2 brands that I buy from trusted headshops that seemed to switch to this new supplier. I have used these brands for years and they used to be good, something changed.

I actually rated these brands 4/5 on BL a couple years ago. Within the last year I now rate them 0/5. Same brand, same packaging, same strain, same price, but now infinitely worse.

Anyone else notice a decline in the US kratom market quality?

 

[Conky]

I think this is happening in Canada as well. In 2019 I was eating around 100g kratom daily in around 4 divided doses. I mixed it with yogurt and it didn't taste too bad and there was no nausea. I quit for a while and when I started up again, there was instant nausea and vomiting half the time I consumed it mixed with water. Exact same source and strains that I was buying a couple years earlier. I also noticed more digestive problems too. Strange and disappointing. Although not quite same as you because when I didn't puke it up, there was opioid effects.

 

[4meSM]

I don't know if it's somehow related but in europe there has been a shortage of kratom for the last couple of months. Most strains are unavailable or low in stock, even among the biggest vendors.
I'm not sure what's happening but I think there has been some issues in Indonesia, although I haven't had the time to look into it yet.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I think this is happening in Canada as well. In 2019 I was eating around 100g kratom daily in around 4 divided doses. I mixed it with yogurt and it didn't taste too bad and there was no nausea. I quit for a while and when I started up again, there was instant nausea and vomiting half the time I consumed it mixed with water. Exact same source and strains that I was buying a couple years earlier. I also noticed more digestive problems too. Strange and disappointing. Although not quite same as you because when I didn't puke it up, there was opioid effects.

Yeah, it also gives me stomach cramps and heartburn, and I've never had stomach problems at all from any kratom even when I was dosing 60g per day.

I have no tolerance right now after taking a few weeks off. Bought 1 brand, dosed 10g and zero effect just felt like shit, next day I bought a different brand which used to be extremely good and same thing, dosed 10g and no effect just shitty headache and cramps.

Today I bought a 3rd brand which I trust for quality (bag was manufactured 2 years ago), took 5g and have a very pleasant buzz with no side effects.

The 2 bad bags smell the same, like shit.

Something is definitely going on, because even in the past I've had shitty kratom but it always still had some effect it was just weak.

The headache and stomach problems are new and something I've never experienced before ever.

 

[Conky]

Yeah, it also gives me stomach cramps and heartburn, and I've never had stomach problems at all from any kratom even when I was dosing 60g per day.

I have no tolerance right now after taking a few weeks off. Bought 1 brand, dosed 10g and zero effect just felt like shit, next day I bought a different brand which used to be extremely good and same thing, dosed 10g and no effect just shitty headache and cramps.

Today I bought a 3rd brand which I trust for quality (bag was manufactured 2 years ago), took 5g and have a very pleasant buzz with no side effects.

The 2 bad bags smell the same, like shit.

Something is definitely going on, because even in the past I've had shitty kratom but it always still had some effect it was just weak.

The headache and stomach problems are new and something I've never experienced before ever.

Yeah it's pretty sad because if you're going to get those issues, might as well take a full agonist such as morphine because at least the good effects kick in before the stomach problems versus insta puking with kratom. I tried making kratom tea as well but you just don't get enough alkaloids as you do when consuming all the plant matter.

 

[JackARoe]

You have to find those reputable vendors that you can trust. I always seem to get pretty good stuff. And I am one of those that bought whole Bali leaf in 2006-2010 and grinded it myself. Something I have not seen in a while. But I still think most of the kratom I get (from the same two vendors) is pretty good quality. Kilos for not too much. I have never had smoke shop kratom or OPMS (hate that name lol) Every few years I may get a lower quality batch but that is only on occasion.

I use get the MDMA/opiate effect too in my first year of using kratom. I have a little of that "good ol days" opinion but I think what happened more for me is my body changed. The good thing is I am consistent. 15 grams at 7:00AM and 15 gr at 4:30PM. Same amount each time everyday. I was trying for a maintenance and balance and it worked.

I want off though and want to use on occassion which I can pull off. I did that with poppy tea my last 7 years of using to prove to myself I could control it after multiple habits. Once a week. Saturday poppy tea day, lasts into Sunday, then Monday and Tues that raw feeling like your body doesn't know if it should withdraw. Wed, Thurs,Fri back to normal and do it all over again on Saturday. I think the up and down is more dangerous than balance. Miles Davis commented in his book that if Billy Holiday and Charley Parker had either stayed on or off heroin and not back and forth they may still be alive. I am big on manitenence. NOw that I got it I need off.

Don't know how I feel about the notion of the "good ol drug days". I think they do exist for some street drugs these days, people complaining about things like meth and heroin/fentanyl, but more often people's body change too. So it can be a mix.

I agree there is just way too much kratom in the US. But a good vendor is a must.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Yeah, I know quite a few good vendors that are still good. Most are only online, though.

These days I don't use daily anymore, so I usually buy on impulse and don't want to wait for shipping. End up going to a headshop.

But heck, even the worst of the worst gas station kratom used to be 10x better than what is going around now.

I suspect there is some global supply shortage or the SEA industry was changed somehow like @4meSM mentioned.

 

[jasperkent]

Yeah, I know quite a few good vendors that are still good. Most are only online, though.

These days I don't use daily anymore, so I usually buy on impulse and don't want to wait for shipping. End up going to a headshop.

But heck, even the worst of the worst gas station kratom used to be 10x better than what is going around now.

I suspect there is some global supply shortage or the SEA industry was changed somehow like @4meSM mentioned.

I always buy from gas stations/convenience stores but I stick to 2 or 3 brands that I've found to be reliable over the past 3 years or so. I haven't noticed any difference but what you're reporting concerns me.
Any chance you'd tell me the names of these brands that have changed for the worse?
I'd like to know what to avoid.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Earth Kratom, PainOut, Blue Diamond.

 

[jasperkent]

Earth Kratom, PainOut, Blue Diamond.

Thanks.
I've seen Earth (maybe tried it once?) but I'm not familiar with the other two.
Probably a regional thing.
I do appreciate the heads up.

Edit-- I buy capsules for convenience so I can't judge the smell/taste of whatever I'm taking.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Hmm I haven't noticed this phenomenon myself...I haven't been buying much kratom lately though

One brand that I have been enjoying lately is this one called "Nava Leaf". I actually found them at a headshop originally, they make kratom cookies. At first I was skeptical that they'd be any good, because generally any kind of "flavored kratom" product still tastes absolutely godawful, but this product actually tastes somewhat decent (you can still taste the kratom but it's buried deep under the cookie flavor...other than Hush caramels, it's the best product I've ever had regarding masking the unpleasant taste of kratom.)

They seem to use a high-quality extract in the production of the cookies too. I usually have one cookie with coffee in the morning and I get a nice pleasant buzz from just one

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Man this shit is starting to piss me off. Even from the most reputable vendors different batches of the same strain with different packaging dates can be either super good or super weak.

You never know what the hell you're gonna get. Stuff with overwhelmingly positive feedback ends up being super weak. Stuff with mixed/poor reviews ends up being quite good.

There seems to be a massive variability from batch to batch. I never noticed this issue in the past. Really annoying me.

Also, I suspect this issue may have something to do with vendors associated with AKA (American Kratom Association).

I've now had to add Happy Hippo to the list of questionable vendors. I've tried 5 different strains from them in the last week or two. 2 were decent/good, 3 of them were weak as fuck. In the past I've never had this issue with them.

 

[xtcgrrrl]

Man this shit is starting to piss me off. Even from the most reputable vendors different batches of the same strain with different packaging dates can be either super good or super weak.

You never know what the hell you're gonna get. Stuff with overwhelmingly positive feedback ends up being super weak. Stuff with mixed/poor reviews ends up being quite good.

There seems to be a massive variability from batch to batch. I never noticed this issue in the past. Really annoying me.

Also, I suspect this issue may have something to do with vendors associated with AKA (American Kratom Association).

I've now had to add Happy Hippo to the list of questionable vendors. I've tried 5 different strains from them in the last week or two. 2 were decent/good, 3 of them were weak as fuck. In the past I've never had this issue with them.

I find that switching strains AND brands from time to time is what helps. I use Viable Solutions for plain leaf, Hush products of all kinds for a bit of extra oomph, King Kratom extract capsules instead of regular for high pain days, and those Nava Leaf cookies are THE BOMB. But by having a variety of options on hand, one way or the other I’m gonna get my pain relief.

In the past, Golden Monk was good, but not so much anymore, I wonder why? Used to be my go-to for bulk orders.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

So turns out I now have heavy metal poisoning from this shit kratom. Lead, nickel and arsenic. I always knew this was a possibility, but didn't make the connection until it was too late. I am having a dozen shitty symptoms now including severe ones like difficulty breathing, irregular heart rate, chest pains, persistent headache and strong mental fog.

I am never buying headshop kratom ever again, you should avoid it at all cost. It used to be decent, but the kratom market expanded so rapidly they've begun sourcing it from the worst of the worst farmers who do not test their soil for these contaminants.

South East Asian soil is notorious for being contaminated with lead, as well as nickel, cadmium and arsenic.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Damn that sucks dude. That's why it's important for government groups (or at least private entities like Consumer Reports, which did a good piece recently on cadmium and lead content of cacao products recently) to test and regulate food/drugs within a legalized context, so consumers are protected from that kind of thing.

Lead and Cadmium Could Be in Your Dark Chocolate - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports tested 28 dark chocolate bars and found cadmium and lead in all of them. Here's how to limit your heavy metal exposure.

www.consumerreports.org

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Damn that sucks dude. That's why it's important for government groups (or at least private entities like Consumer Reports, which did a good piece recently on cadmium and lead content of cacao products recently) to test and regulate food/drugs within a legalized context, so consumers are protected from that kind of thing.

Lead and Cadmium Could Be in Your Dark Chocolate - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports tested 28 dark chocolate bars and found cadmium and lead in all of them. Here's how to limit your heavy metal exposure.

www.consumerreports.org

Looks like Virginia is taking steps in that direction. Hopefully more soon.

 

[4meSM]

So turns out I now have heavy metal poisoning from this shit kratom. Lead, nickel and arsenic. I always knew this was a possibility, but didn't make the connection until it was too late. I am having a dozen shitty symptoms now including severe ones like difficulty breathing, irregular heart rate, chest pains, persistent headache and strong mental fog.

I am never buying headshop kratom ever again, you should avoid it at all cost. It used to be decent, but the kratom market expanded so rapidly they've begun sourcing it from the worst of the worst farmers who do not test their soil for these contaminants.

South East Asian soil is notorious for being contaminated with lead, as well as nickel, cadmium and arsenic.

Fuck that's... Heavy.

Did you get tested for heavy metals or is it a hypothesis based on your symptoms? Either way those symptoms are concerning.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

Damn... maybe it was a good call to get off it for a while.
Shit reads like a horror story.
Havent noticed any differences since stopping (cept aches and coffee) but not a doc.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Fuck that's... Heavy.

Did you get tested for heavy metals or is it a hypothesis based on your symptoms? Either way those symptoms are concerning.

Not tested, but I have literally almost all the general symptoms.

It's been 48hr since I last took any of the suspect kratom and I'm starting to feel a little better.

 

[Conky]

Good kratom is so much better than the shit dope being sold these days. I bought some recently and the sample I tested was basically all caffeine.

I'm going to try some different online kratom sources and see if those make me vomit or not.