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can you Think about Thinking ?

theghostofbillhicks

theghostofbillhicks

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Dec 21, 2003
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Just an interesting philosophy problem i'm playing with.

Socrates toyed with the idea that self knowledge involved a knowledge of knowledge. What do you think this means?

I think self knowledge is a result of increased awareness. The more conscious a person is (of themselves and their context) it seems the more one could say they know themselves.

But this knowledge of knowledge necessarily involves 2 distinct areas of consiousness- the aware part which is passive, and the subject of that awareness which is active.

So who agrees with Socrates? What do you think self knowledge really consists of?

X
 
a bit of anal retentive introvertion maybe.....
maybe the seperation from biologicical, behavioral and into say cognitive, condition and responce psychology.

or seperation from instinct and what you have learned that molds what you are, the concscious effort to see how it inneracts with itself so you can actaully begin to shape it consciously instead of unconsciously.

which is just alot like what you said. the diffrence is mere words. olden philosphers had very little to work with, which makes there work that much more amazing, however hard to compute.

generalized psychology before psychology , I think
 
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But this knowledge of knowledge necessarily involves 2 distinct areas of consiousness- the aware part which is passive, and the subject of that awareness which is active.
Click to expand...

You're not going far enough. If this passive part is also part of you, then unless you also had an awareness of that passive part of you, then you wouldn't be totally self-aware -- so you'd need three distinct areas of consciousness. But wait, there's more areas of awareness... on toward infinity...
 
aha the infinite regress! I think either the infinite regress may link up to the Platonic conception of 'GOD' as that which knows they know they know etc.

Either that or the passive part escapes having to be known directly because we can infer its existence from its effects in our awareness.

or am i just getting tied in knots ;)
 
knowledge about yourself, your perception, awarness, thought process etc.
 
not sure if this is relavant, but i'm sure it is in some ways...
do a search on google or whatever, for Ken Wilbur. There is a plethora of texts out there dealing with everything he's about..

I am not sure.. I mean I think, about thinking.. a lot.. just posted a thread on the topic, kinda downgrading it.. looking at it through a different lens for say..

rewired... I agree with you on that... there are three states of consciousness..

but then from those three.. you can draw mirrors, and mirrors of mirrors.. chaos theory would support as above, so below..

if you look at fractal geometry, it is all based on triangles... it follows sequence, self-repeating.. think about what we're doing.. with our breeding, our instinct to keep our interlays with the world in tact, in some form or another. we create inventions.. culture that lasts generations...

religion.. we want to make a mark with our lives, carry on our lineage... our reputation.. we want respect.. so we think about ourselves.. interlayed with the world.. we want the world to conform to us.. we manipulate the world... then we try to manipulate ourselves into the world.. which is what we realise we've been doing all along..

thinking about thinking takes you places you didn't know existed... as the phrase is a mirror.. so is the state that it brings..

so we create that mark, somewhere in between those three points.. . . . but then again.. there's tons of roots extending before, as well as behind you.

you can never really get a full grasp of what you are.... because you are constantly in mutation... your mind is constantly trying to comfort itself... chemicals blind us, no matter where we are.. as human beings we are aware of things we are aware we aren't aware of, so we naturally have to be on guard in any situation. we naturally filter out those mirrors

or many of us feel we do... we tend to create polarity when things are seemingly, in balance... we bring things up.. inside ourselves.. and even if we don't say it.. it's in the air.. someone else picks up on it.. and says it... ever have that? thinking about thinking... are people really that connected?

but what is that..

hmm

got off the subject....

when we think about thinking.. we are ultimately trying to form a cognitive mirror....

that mirror, though, is not meant for everyone to see... at least not everyone at any certain time...

that mirror, *I gather*, is something normally only presented upon death, or near death...

it is what gives comfort to those who are dying...

but early in life..

thinking about thinking................. damn... sometimes i wish i didn't :)

sorry..

off topic again.. i truely am sorry...... i don't have the background in socrates philosophy.. it's like any time i've heard anything philosophical... it's like a seed is planted.. and i come to understand it in a way that is all relative.. all rationally geometric in my mind..

that is what i think about my thought process..

but then, you see.. when i put it on paper..

it becomes irrational.. like an imperfect mirror..
no.. actually.. like one of those concave mirrors.. .convex.. warped.. whatever..

dementia here
 
it's not you. All philosophy takes the reader down labyrinthine paths of thought that are often impossible to escape from if you go deep enough.

I think God thinks about thinking about thinking etc.. The infinite regress isn't something to be thought of as a problem here. It is just the mind of the divine.

solution or cop out?
 
its not about endless mindgames. Its about being self aware, knowing the fundementals of how you think and see the world. by knowing that you can shift them and increase awarness/perception. If your stuck in endlesss loops it means u aint doing something right.
 
i disagree

i tend to think that all thought, no matter how awareness is fueled by and by.. you're still gonna end up in a loop

things always come full circle.. that's just commonality.

But then again, you don't have to 'feel' like you're just going in loops..

you're just exploring..
 
right on..

you can definately think about your thinking. I used to think about my thinking too much but it all came good in the end as I figured out alot of things about myself using some analytical thought. Philosophy is a good start.

I've just bought Plato-Last days of socrates so I'll find out what the great man has to say and get back to you.
 
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