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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

Incognito market "extorting" everyone

Ismene2

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
2,652
Dunno if this is allowed or not (delete as appropriate axe) but incognito market are threatening to publish the address/orders of vendors and buyers unless they pay.

Im nonplussed - so what if they publish addresses and orders? I could get a phonebook and do the same on a home computer in 20 minutes. Its not proof of anything. Just clean house and forget about it - unless the woodentops find drugs in your house theres nothing they can do.
 
So its a darknet market? Maybe just change/remove the specific name and the mods will hopefully allow it.

I think that this warrants discussion in the context of harm reduction - people can lose jobs due to blackmail like this.

However, I personally wouldn't worry unless I was moving large enough amounts either in or out for law enforcement to truly give a shit. We're talking FBI, NCA, Interpol, Europol, international law enforcement levels of interest/investigation. They wont be worried about people ordering the odd gram of whatever here and there. Some unlucky folks who have imported the odd ounce of something naughty here and there might get caught by local law enforcement if the DNM actually publishes a whole list that can identify a person and if it makes its way to some local police department but I suspect the damage will be minimal and the law will only be interested in catching some big players.

How much money do you think the feds need to see to get a hardon for a person? 10grand at the least I reckon and probably at least 2 transactions that can be traced/confirmed. Evidence of money laundering, conspiracy and all the juicy stuff they like. Why else bother? Local law enforcement might pick on a sad sack who was spending a few grand to make a few more but its unlikely isn't it? Even for personal use that can be argued in court.

The last big operation over in Europe was Operation Venetic, via which the Gendarme (French police) somehow broke into the Encrochat network that was being used by semi-to-high level organised crime groups and European countries have caught some big fish that way but we are talking about people moving kilos, guns, running drugs at the national and regional levels, as well as import and conspiracy and even this has been challenged in the law due to the nature of how the data was obtained - a legal grey area which is being challenged by defence lawyers all over the place, even after convictions.

But yeah, unless you're the plug I doubt much will come of it. Will look into it though and maybe the mods can change the thread to something like "Darknet Market Blackmail and Extortion" as it is a valid topic.
 
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Regardless of what you've done you can only be charged for drugs they find in your house. Othrrwise you could just tell dibble that someone you dont like is selling drugs. The drugs have to be found on you.
 
Is it the actual admins or owners of the market that are threatening this, or some hacker that has got into their database?

Obviously it's a really bad and desparete move if it's the market themselves.

No one will pay a ransom, and no one will ever buy or sell anything on there again.
 
@benson7 - it could be part of or a type of exit scam, where the darknet market just take whatever transactions they can get their hands on and close shop. These have happened many times since Silk Road 1.

@Ismene2 - they can get you on conspiracy if there is evidence of you doing more than simply paying for something and possibly receiving it. This takes investigation and is why I said they will only be interested in any major players that come up on the radar - evidence of transactions, access to communications facilitating deals, evidence of product reaching a person/group and moving down the chain. What is the likelihood of them getting something tasty like that with an address and a record of transactions which are designed to be anonymous and how many serious people will be using an address that can be easily connected to them? OCGs know how to compartmentalise - some will use a techie type to make deals and the geek may not even know who he/she is working for. Even low level dealers tend to not keep their supply in their own homes, unless they are user-dealer types and these people don't get their goods from the internet - they barely know anyone beyond whoever delivers it to them and those people generally don't get their supply online either, they get their goods from someone up the ladder.

Its probably a load of bullshit and extortion has long been a part of darknet markets. Dread Pirate Roberts the First was paying off blackmailers all the way back then and he fell for all kinds of dumb scams, trying to get people murdered and all that (law enforcement stings) and simple scammers who played on his nerdy naivety when it comes to criminality.

For all anyone knows this could be due to the actual market being compromised, either by hackers who are trying to spook paranoid people into paying up. Could be a bluff. Or it could be a law enforcement technique to see if anyone is dumb enough to pay an extortion fee after they have taken over the market - the FBI have done this with at least one nonce site which led to more traffic, causing fair criticism but people are more likely to accept the technique if they are only using some clowns to catch a few drug dealers. Highly unlikely though. Anyone with any brains will just be cleaning up shop.
 
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I dunno Pharaoh - I think you still need the drugs to be found on you to be charged with anything. A list of names and addresses that you've apparantly sold to is meaningless - I could knock up a list like that and send it to the cops about the bloke who stole my girlfriend. It's not going to result in anything unless there's a ton of drugs in his house. It's like when you're running from the cops and you throw the drugs away - the cops obviously know you've had drugs but they can't charge you with anything unless they actually find the drugs - that's why they spend hours looking for them in the undergrowth.

In operation ismene I was never charged with the drugs I'd ordered - because they didn't find them in the house (the fucking shitgibbon opened the envelope and looked in it and still never saw the drugs inside). They just charged me with the drugs they found in the house - that's the way it goes.

(MInd you - they probably could've charged people during operation ismene with just ordering drugs because they had their credit card numbers - but there's no credit card numbers on the darknet drug orders just a name and address - which won't stand up in court)

 
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Is it the actual admins or owners of the market that are threatening this, or some hacker that has got into their database?

Obviously it's a really bad and desparete move if it's the market themselves.

No one will pay a ransom, and no one will ever buy or sell anything on there again.

They've exit scammed as well Bleaney - they exit scammed first and then came up with the extortion idea a bit later. They made a post saying "You know when you encrypted your address with our system? Well it wasn't encrypted it was sent straight to us you silly bastards"
 
Regardless of what you've done you can only be charged for drugs they find in your house. Othrrwise you could just tell dibble that someone you dont like is selling drugs. The drugs have to be found on you.
But I bet it wouldn't stop them from putting you on a list to get your tagged vendors and known addressed deliveries intercepted and the subsequently make a controlled delivery.
 
But I bet it wouldn't stop them from putting you on a list to get your tagged vendors and known addressed deliveries intercepted and the subsequently make a controlled delivery.

I've always been curious about the idea of the controlled delivery Cheshire. How do they work? The po po intercept a parcel with drugs in it - then they post it through your door, then they raid the house? What exactly does the delivery prove? Ok, it's a reason for raiding the house but if they don't find any drugs IN your house what do they have? A parcel that someone sent to you with drugs in it? So what? If it was that easy to get someone in trouble over drugs you could just send a parcel of drugs to someone you didn't like and mark it "illegal drugs" and they would be jailed for years.

Surely you need to find more drugs in the house before you can charge them with anything. Can they really charge you with the parcel that arrived in the post if your house is clean and there's no evidence you bought it? I mean - I could send a parcel of heroin to Donald Trump marked "HEROIN" - is that really enough for Trump to be charged with heroin possession?
 
I've always been curious about the idea of the controlled delivery Cheshire. How do they work? The po po intercept a parcel with drugs in it - then they post it through your door, then they raid the house? What exactly does the delivery prove? Ok, it's a reason for raiding the house but if they don't find any drugs IN your house what do they have? A parcel that someone sent to you with drugs in it? So what? If it was that easy to get someone in trouble over drugs you could just send a parcel of drugs to someone you didn't like and mark it "illegal drugs" and they would be jailed for years.

Surely you need to find more drugs in the house before you can charge them with anything. Can they really charge you with the parcel that arrived in the post if your house is clean and there's no evidence you bought it? I mean - I could send a parcel of heroin to Donald Trump marked "HEROIN" - is that really enough for Trump to be charged with heroin possession?
The answer in practical terms is that yes they deliver your stuff and can back up the fact that you ordered it because they have indeed traced the activity in a case like this. They don't do controlled deliver unless they have enough to prosecute. Otherwise they simply don't deliver and you get a "love letter" instead of your stash.
 
They've exit scammed as well Bleaney - they exit scammed first and then came up with the extortion idea a bit later. They made a post saying "You know when you encrypted your address with our system? Well it wasn't encrypted it was sent straight to us you silly bastards"
If they exit scammed then it is academic, isn't? No more shipments so who are they kidding...
 
The answer in practical terms is that yes they deliver your stuff and can back up the fact that you ordered it because they have indeed traced the activity in a case like this. They don't do controlled deliver unless they have enough to prosecute. Otherwise they simply don't deliver and you get a "love letter" instead of your stash.

That's pre-darknet tho isn't it? In operation ismene they had everyones credit card number so it was obvious. With the darknet they don't have shit - they have a parcel with drugs in it and your address. That's it. So yeah - they'll send a love letter or they could still raid the house but if they don't find any drugs in the house - you're scot free. The parcel of drugs is no evidence whatsoever. Anyone could've sent it to you.
 
If they exit scammed then it is academic, isn't? No more shipments so who are they kidding...

They're just saying they'll publish all the names, addresses and orders. So you have to pay to have your name taken off the list.
 
@Ismene2 Long post here but I wanna explain what I was trying to say based on the law regarding conspiracy and also reassuring people that, unless they have been importing or exporting major amounts and have an address that could lead to them being discovered, then they have nothing to worry about.

Conspiracy doesn't have to reveal physical drugs and is a different legal question than simple possession/possession with intent to supply (even though you can still be prosecuted for those crimes even without drugs on you "bang to rights" based on other evidence as you can find on that website if you want to look further into the law). "Conspiracy to import Class A drugs", "Conspiracy to distribute Class A drugs" and so on. These charges could be applied together with many more and could be put together using evidence of orders, purchases, communications between different parties which indicate the movement of drugs and so on.

This is from a solicitor's firm in Manchester which explains how conspiracy cases are prosecuted as well as defended (in England and Wales):

'WHAT IS A CONSPIRACY TO SUPPLY CLASS A DRUGS CHARGE?

The legal definition of 'conspiracy to supply class A drugs' involves two or more individuals forming an agreement to sell or distribute these drugs. Even if the planned actions are not illegal in themselves, (such as driving a vehicle or providing a place for the drugs to be stored or sold), if they are intended to contribute to the crime of supplying Class A drugs, it is sufficient grounds for prosecution. Similar to a possession with intent to supply charge, the police do not have to prove that any supply actually took place, only that the intention was there. Individuals found guilty of involvement in drug supply, particularly class A drugs tend to be penalised harshly due to the significant harm they inflict upon society.

It later says:

Prosecutors will use evidence based upon your interactions with others in the drug supply chain. For example, text messages and phone calls will be used to identify not only communications but also you whereabouts during drug-related activity.'

(Bold emphasis mine)

The only real point I was making is that they would need to heavily investigate a crime like that and so anyone who was using darknet markets for personal use or even for dealing small amounts probably has nothing to worry about, simply due to it being more effort and work for law enforcement to investigate than is worth. They want sure prosecutions and so wont go after someone ordering sheets of acid, a few ecstasy pills, grams, 8ths or whatever of heroin (unless they "have" them, via a person being very stupid). They want big fish that are actually worth pursuing and prosecuting and you're right in saying that an address and some evidence of transactions occurring would not be enough on its own but if we're talking kilos being imported for distribution and with a name being linked to communications which can lead to others, this might open up an investigation into conspiracy.

It is possible, highly unlikely but doesn't require a "raid" and/or drugs being found. Not in a conspiracy case. Look into Operation Venetic and the "Encrochat" phones - highly encrypted mobile devices that could dual boot, either via an Android OS or a built in, heavily encrypted Peer to Peer network which had a self-destruct button. Ironically, many of these would have been purchased on darknet market. The devices were compromised somehow by the Gendarme and this has led to 100s, possibly 1000s of arrests and convictions, many being conspiracy cases. They were able to discover people through their handles on the network via techniques as elaborate as finding a location from a picture which revealed where a person might be based simply on the kind of masonry (just the type of thing they can do - sometimes it could be a kind of wallpaper that is only available via one particular manufacturer via one single store - think "digital forensics") or people willingly/naively giving out personal info over the network due to believing it was secure (which it was for a while).

People spoke about their families, shared pictures of their pets, all kinds of dumb shit. An investigating agency could prove that a person was a suspect via the device and then find evidence of them at certain locations, using CCTV and other surveillance to prove that the person has been there and this corroborate their identity and movements, linking back to their communications which they didn't "destroy" quickly enough (even though the company put out a warning that they discovered that they had been compromised, finally shutting down the whole system. Some people didn't act quickly enough). Many have been arrested, charged and prosecuted without any drugs being on them and some have snitched on others to get lesser sentences.

Anyway in short: unless you are a major drug trafficker operating across borders, a national player or a significant regional trafficker/distributor/dealer then you pretty much have nothing to worry about. Conspiracy would be the major worry for most people as they could get rid of the drugs before the police even got the list (which probably hasn't been released and probably wont be). Also, I doubt that many serious traffickers use darknet markets anyway, even though kilo-level weight does get moved. Many traffickers are known to law enforcement already and aren't likely to use the dark net when they have links to traffickers around the world using long established routes, smuggling techniques and so on. If they do use them, they will use people much further down the chain who are expendable and will do the time should they be caught.

This whole thing is more than likely part of an exit scam - an exit scam with the added element of blackmail is quite clever in theory. Or its a law enforcement compromise/"hack" designed to get some foolish people to reveal themselves due to naivety when it comes to the law or some "hackers" basically doing the same thing but for profit.

Its a buncha bullshit and I don't think anyone has anything to worry about other than losing another darknet market, possibly losing money if it is an exit scam and they have transactions pending. Just tell them to fuck off if they harass you, unless you are a super serious player, in which case phone up your dodgy lawyers.

@Cheshire_Kat EXACTLY - it is a load of nonsense designed to scam naive people, nothing for anyone to worry about.
 
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They make you sign for the package then arrest you

Nah - they need an awful lot more than that..That doesnt work unless they have your credit card number ordering it which they dont have since the darknet started. I could just send drugs registered post to someone and get them jailed if it was that easy.

Unless you confess or they find drugs in the house they havnt got shit on you - just a parcel some fucker sent to get you in trouble.
 
Why would admins of a drug market draw even more attention to themselves by pulling a stunt like this?

Doesn't smell right to me.
 
Why would admins of a drug market draw even more attention to themselves by pulling a stunt like this?

Doesn't smell right to me.

They are presumably criminals tho - might be the russian mafia for all we know - and theoretically it might net them more money than an exit scam
 
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