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Policy Oregon rolling back decriminalization of some drugs. Let’s go back to an utterly failed attempt?

Have you been to Portland lately?

It makes Seattle look nice
No but I was going to if they took the final correct step of legalizing heroin clinics.

But they shit the bed. I wish nothing but complete ruin and anarchy for them now. I’m sorry to the good ppl that live there but the ppl who did this need to see how badly they fucked up and destroyed everything and it’s going to keep getting worse and worse and worse whether the drugs are decriminalized or not.
 
It's because Portland is an open air sewer of drug use with no penalties. I was there a month ago and I can't believe what a POS it has become since 2015 when I was last there.

I'm all for HR but it needs to be balanced with enforcement.

Seems like just making a closed air and controlled and regulated drug market would have been my move.

The drug market isn’t going anywhere they can whack moles all day we have 100s of thousands of ppl coming into the border that fight eachother to the death to get the privilege to refill the dealers position
 
Makes me think of the Prescription Drug Monitoring program (PDMP). I heard about it before but never knew exactly what it was. I was recently prescribed Gabapentin and from researching I saw it was on the list of monitored drugs in my state. I guess in some states its listed as a controlled drug.

I went on the state website to see if I can educate myself on it. Its not very user friendly in my opinion. I was shocked to see how law enforcement has access to it, from other readings some say that was the initial intent of the program, basically for law enforcement to go after anyone and everyone diverting controlled meds, which now at least in my state it seems a warrant is now needed to access records. Further reading some claim its an overdose prevention tool.
Re PDMP. There is a law professed at UC Hastings law in San Francisco that this is her academic area of expertise. Her name is Olivia (forgot last name).

She’s exposed how fucked up and unconstitutional the PDMP is. It isn’t per se the whole idea but the actual metrics they use to score people are the issue.
 
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Seems like just making a closed air and controlled and regulated drug market would have been my move.

The drug market isn’t going anywhere they can whack moles all day we have 100s of thousands of ppl coming into the border that fight eachother to the death to get the privilege to refill the dealers position

No, the drug market isn't going anywhere.

But nothing short of Portugal's approach to drugs is going to work.

If you do all or nothing with "tough on crime," addicts languish in institutions and get no help. Their lives ruined.

If you do all or nothing with harm reduction, you coddle addicts as they commit endless crimes and destroy the livelihoods of cities.

We need both but the left vs. right divide makes it impossible and I am sick of it.

I am sick of the lack of comprehensive, sensible policy on so many different subjects because of the culture war. Both sides are problematic but I currently hate progressivism passionately.
 
I think, like in Portugal, possession of any small quantity of drugs should be decriminalized. But if you get trashy high in public or become a burden to the community, the courts can give you the choice of fine, jail, or rehab.

I've got no problem with drug use as long as it's not disruptive. Here in Vancouver when I see crackheads passed out in children's playgrounds my heart aches. And the government here enables it because "addicts just can't help themselves." Yeah fuck that.
 
No but I was going to if they took the final correct step of legalizing heroin clinics.

But they shit the bed. I wish nothing but complete ruin and anarchy for them now. I’m sorry to the good ppl that live there but the ppl who did this need to see how badly they fucked up and destroyed everything and it’s going to keep getting worse and worse and worse whether the drugs are decriminalized or not.

forced rehab - kinda like jail because you gotta go

places where you can't get drugs


it doesn't work when you give people this much freedom - they cant handle it

might be time to start billy clubbing people


do they stil do that in Britain? cops have no guns just billy clubs?

they wear the big long helmets and billy club ya
 
forced rehab - kinda like jail because you gotta go

places where you can't get drugs


it doesn't work when you give people this much freedom - they cant handle it

might be time to start billy clubbing people


do they stil do that in Britain? cops have no guns just billy clubs?

they wear the big long helmets and billy club ya
Forced rehab ? Just take money and burn it and allow drug users to light their crack pipes using the flames.

Same outcome.
 
Forced rehab ? Just take money and burn it and allow drug users to light their crack pipes using the flames.

Same outcome.

Oh well, then I guess some drug users will just have to deal with revolving door rehab. I'm okay with that as long as the surrounding society remains civilized.
 
The overwhelming success Portugal has had with their approach makes me wonder why our country here in the US (or any country for that matter) would not try doing what they did.

It was extremely expensive to the tune of $6-10 billion USD just to create the infrastructure for it.

It also required bipartisan support... from both harm reduction, medical and law enforcement advocates.

So basically, in the US, you'd need to get the right and the left to come together with big pharma, police (and the DEA), and the harm reduction crowd and get them all to agree to it.

It's not happening. Big pharma likes addicts. The war on drugs keeps the DEA and the prison-industrial complex thriving. The harm reduction crowd/left wing progressives want 100% HR or nothing and thinks police can only be evil. "Addicts are addicts for life" so we should just give them all the drugs with no incentive to be better people. And the right wing "won't pay for all that with my tax dollars" and basically just wants addicts to fuck off and die for not being righteous Christians.

Portugal also has universal health care... so it wasn't a huge stretch to extend that into drug programs. In the US, a program like this would have people asking why it's not going into health care programs "for people who didn't choose to fuck up their lives with drugs." Meanwhile the US could pay for it if it just took money from scumbags like Purdue, the main cause of the opioid epidemic, and put it into addiction infrastructure. But the US is extremely hesitant to punish its drug companies for any wrongdoing, so... that's yet another pipe dream.

Basically the tl;dr is that the US needs a revolution before it will ever attempt something like Portugal did. Canada too, frankly.
 
Oh well, then I guess some drug users will just have to deal with revolving door rehab. I'm okay with that as long as the surrounding society remains civilized.
Society won’t remain civilized because those addicts you jail are constantly being replace by the young children whose parents were abusive or addicts.

Example daddy goes to jail for selling small time dope to keep his habit and family fed. Them kids life goes even worse to shit because his new daddy is the local street gang.

This problem has nothing to do with drugs. This drug problem is a result of the death of the American dream; all the increased drugs crime and suicide is simply a symptom of that main problem which is the death of the American dream.

I’ll add that rehabs and jails are full of drugs and new drug dealers to connect with.
 
There will never be a time when the police in this country can actually act against the people in a general manner because we have more guns than they do, and a lot of people that I know personally have better guns than the police.
I’m sick of you pussies saying this and not doing anything.

What is it going to take? How bad does the government have to fuck you over until you do something with your guns besides masturbate to them?

I don’t have any guns bc the most dangerous person towards me is myself…but I agree with everyone having them for the same reason as you. But just “having” the guns is nothing you might as well throw them into the ocean.
 
db457-fig4.png
Purdue, the main cause of the opioid epidemic, and put it into addiction infrastructure.
Purdue didn’t cause the opioid epidemic that is a scapegoat lie the government used.

#1 the drug was classed as schedule 2 from the get go. This defines the drug as being highly addictive. No doctors were tricked by a sales rep with zero medical degree. Every doctor knows what schedule 2 means.

#2 see figure 4 below. The death rate was on the same plateau it always had been and there wasn’t some blow up of deaths from oxy. The actual blow up is the vertical spike you see here when the CDC wrote their 2016 guidlines that the feds used as an excuse to arrest every doctor or terrorize them into fear of not prescribing so the cartel happily stepped in and replaced everyone’s oxy with fent.

db457-fig4.png
 
Society won’t remain civilized because those addicts you jail are constantly being replace by the young children whose parents were abusive or addicts.

Example daddy goes to jail for selling small time dope to keep his habit and family fed. Them kids life goes even worse to shit because his new daddy is the local street gang.

This problem has nothing to do with drugs. This drug problem is a result of the death of the American dream; all the increased drugs crime and suicide is simply a symptom of that main problem which is the death of the American dream.

I’ll add that rehabs and jails are full of drugs and new drug dealers to connect with.

I understand all that... but people's problems should not be splayed out in the open in the streets, in public transit, in children's parks, in common areas. Progressives think that these things should be visible so then society will deal with them, except the average person has no agency to change these massive social problems, and it only breeds resentment. The philosophy of "not suffering behind closed doors" is noble but in practice it does fuck all.

Today I couldn't even withdraw money from my bank because four people, FOUR, were camped out in the ATM lobby before the bank opened, one of them passed out with a pipe in his hand. Like honestly... fuck off. I'm totally aware of the irony of the worst off people passed out at a financial institution - I GET IT - but life still has to go on. People need to function.

BC is a building a massive mental institution. That should help. I think a lot of these people have serious mental disorders and should be in long-term care. Others just don't give a fuck, they will shoot up needles right at a bus stop where people are waiting to go to work. I think it should be illegal. BC government tried to make it illegal, then do-gooders went to the supreme court and got it overturned "because harm reduction." All the law tried to say is that you can't shoot up or smoke crack at playgrounds, and progressives even wanted to stop that.

The west coast cities are all falling because of lawlessness and progressive bullshit. Downtown San Fransisco is being gutted of major businesses. Here in Vancouver, 6000 crimes were committed by the same 50 homeless people in the past five years. I'm not exaggerating, this is a literal statistic. The do-gooder revolving door justice system cuts them loose "because harm reduction." It has to end. I CAN'T WAIT for a change in government. We need conservative leadership so badly. Progressivism has gone off the rails.
 
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Purdue didn’t cause the opioid epidemic that is a scapegoat lie the government used.

I'm not having this debate with you. I just spent a year studying health policy in university and Purdue was a huge case study. They knowingly fudged data about addictiveness in their in-house studies, lied to the FDA, and gave doctors literature downplaying the addictiveness of oxy. They lied with impunity to profit. It was shown in court numerous times that the Sackler family knew every step of the way. The only reason why they didn't get charged with criminal negligence directly and thrown in prison was because of indemnity laws shielding pharma reps from direct responsibility.

I'm not saying Purdue was SOLELY responsible. Obviously the medical establishment is a huge system. But they were definitely liable for a huge part of it. The number of opioid addicts in the US skyrocketed in the 90s and a huge portion of them were former Rx drug users under an MD's care who were cut loose.
 
Giving drugs to people who clearly need help (in whatever sphere of their life that may be) is not going to help anyone. Keeping someone alive so they can "live" a life of abject misery isn't compassionate.

I have friends who work in the industry (and yes, that's what it's become in Canada) and I don't mind telling you that shit has only got worse since the mass introduction of sanctioned drugs and drugs use...as heard from the people in the industry (though, anecdotally, from almost anyone).

Oregon are tripping fucking balls because the beast they have unleashed through a misguided attempt at compassion is fucking ugly. Unlucky for us northern cunts, we have yet to see the light.

You can't force people into helping themselves but you don't need to encourage their self-destructive behaviour.
I have ex-friends who are basically zombies because during their deepest pits of despair they clung to those in their lives who encouraged their self-destructive behaviour and discarded those of us who both understood their pain and suffering and also offered help.

It's a failed experiment in the North American context....for whatever reason. The reason doesn't matter. What matters is that it hasn't helped in the way that it was said it would.
 
Bet you they're not.
They absolutely are. 80% of offenders are in jail for drug crimes. If the prison population was to fall by 80% their budget would be slashed because they would not need to house, clothe, feed, and "rehabilitate" aka- enslave as many of 'their' (because be real, if the gov can throw you in a 6x4 box for life, they own you) own citizens for buying or selling a bag of shit that had a chemical structure the police/DEA don't like.
 
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