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Science Research: Sucralose is Genotoxic

CFC

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The common artificial sweetener Sucralose, which has been increasingly incorporated into sugar free products in recent years, has been shown to not pass through the gut unchanged, as was originally claimed by manufacturers. In fact, it appears to be rather toxic, breaking down cellular DNA, causing oxidative stress, inflammation, and potentially carcinogenic. It's a probable cause of 'leaky gut syndrome'.

I'm glad they've figured this out. I have no tolerance to sucralose - it goes straight through me and leaves my gut in a world of pain for hours. I have to be very careful when I eat out or pick things up in the store as it's considered 'harmless' by so many and often hidden in all kinds of foods and drinks.

 
typical hubris of man sort of thing. everyone thinks science is a blessing while completely ignoring the human cost. how many collective years of misery did victims of science have to suffer? cancers and such. terrible fates, all justified by progress.

is it worth a slightly better standard of living? is any of this making us happier?
 
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typical hubris of man sort of thing. everyone thinks science is a blessing while completely ignoring the human cost. how many collective years of misery did victims of science have to suffer? cancers and such. terrible fates, all justified by progress.

is it worth a slightly better standard of living? is any of this making us happier?
Germ theory is due to science. This led to some of the most significant interventions that extended the human lifespan. It isn't all luxury.

However, i doubt there is any artificial sweetener that is healthy. There really isn't a free lunch in life, and if something tastes sweet, it will cause insulin release, and if it isn't accompanied with glucose, you will release less insulin over time to maintain homeostasis.

This is not to mention compound specific issues like erythritol causing increased clotting at doses used by humans.

The paper discussed (open access, so anybody can read it there) has a number of flaws and more general weaknesses. If it were a better paper it would be published somewhere stronger than the Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, Part B. (the part B refers to the papers being a kind of hybrid between primary research and review article. Reviews are good to find pertinent papers, but often ignore pretty severe flaws in methods. I generally don't trust them other than an index of what work is in the field, and the conclusions of the papers contained).

Many of the experiments were performed only with sucralose 6 acetate (S6a), rather than sucralose itself (i assume to maximize this effect. Considering this, concentrations used in the experiments are rather high.

In experiment 1 using human lymphoblast cells, DNA damaging effects were only found in the mM (millimolar) range of S6A. For comparison the blood alcohol limit to drive corresponds to about 5.4 millimoles, and is reached between 2 and 3 standard drinks, or 20 to 30 grams of pure ethanol.

These seemingly high doses required for toxicity occur in many of these experiments, especially considering that they are done with the metabolite rather than the parent compound.

Experiment 2 finds micronuclei at about 2 mM of S6A in the same cells and not below.

Experiment 3 is an in silico projection of toxicity/mutagenicity which predicts that but in the results they mentioned that it is not substantiated by the ames test performed in experiment 4 (the gold standard assay for mutagenicity). Thus, the in silico data is worthless.

Experiment 5 demonstrates an increase in intestinal permeability at concentrations between 5 and 10 mM of the metabolite sucralose 6 acetate. This effect was not significant at the 2.5 mM concentration. Sucralose itself was tested and found significant at increasing permeability at 80 mM.

Experiment 6 finds alterations in the RNA expression of 34 genes when the same intestinal cells from experiment 4 treated with S6A at 10 mM, and 2 genes when treated with sucralose at 80 mM.



Experiment 7 finds that sucralose 6 acetate is cleared from human liver microsomes with a half life of 36.6 minutes, and sucralose is not cleared to an extent to calculate a half life (>186.4 minutes). This corresponds with initial studies of sucralose finding it not to be cleared by the liver (and not studying s6a).

Experiment 8 looks at liver enzyme inhibition by S6a and not sucralose. Inhibition levels were in the micromolar (uM) level (1000 fold lower than millimolar), as the enzymes purified liver microsomes are more exposed to the metabolite than when in intact cells. S6a inhibited CYP1A2 at 42.9 uM (compared to 0.111 uM for the positive control) and CYP2C19 at 89.3 uM (compared to 4.19 uM for the positive control). These potencies are much lower than compounds found in common food inhibitors of liver enzymes such as the furanocoumarins in grapefruits.

Overall this paper seems to report alarming effects at much higher concentrations than would be consumed sucralose is ~600 times as sweet as sugar, so will be in much lower concentrations than sucrose, with incomplete biotransformation of sucralose to s6a.

However, i am not saying sucralose is without negative effects, just that this study is a bit shit.

This study (also open access) published in nature medicine (one of the best journals for biomedical research) is much better.

The study shows little effect of chronic free access to sucralose in mouse weight, insulin responses/glucose tolerance, and inconsistent changes to gut microbiota.

They show decreased T cell (cytotoxic adaptive immune cell) responses and proliferation in mice after being given unlimited access to sucralose, leading to concentrations near what humans reach after sucralose consumption, 1uM (thousands fold lower than levels of the sucralose 6 acetate metabolite in the previous study). This paper goes further and characterizes the molecular mechanisms of these in multiple cell lines to be impaired pholipase C based calcium signaling (phospholipases cleave cell membrane phospholipids, to lipid fragments and the phosphate head groups which open up intracellular calcium stores. This pathway is present in all Gq coupled receptors such as a favorite of mine and many other blue lighters, the serotonin 2a receptor which produces psychadelic effects).

This paper used multiple models to confirm their findings and found a functional role where mice implanted with tumors rejected some less when treated with sucralose, which is definately a reason in my book to avoid the compound.

They also found impaired responses to infection in mice and in cells treated with sucralose, but they found a reduction in autoimmune disease symptoms in mouse models, which oddly they suggest sucralose as a treatment for.

I feel this is a much better paper because of their detailed analysis of molecular mechanisms, plus use of animal models to get closer to human relevance. It also seems there is more nuance where they don't ignore random positive effects of the t cell suppression on auto-immune symptoms.

There are plenty of unstudied nuances, and i kind of just want this post to convey the message that not all science is equal, and analysis of the contents of the papers is required to judge the validity of their claims.
 
Yes, dosing mice with a wildly unrealistic amount is a pretty common flaw in the methodology of such studies.

Yet, we do know for certain that the cumulative effect of frequently ingesting engineered foods is known to be responsible for harmful conditions like heart disease and type II diabetes.

The failure of a particular study doesn't invalidate the overarcing truth that avoiding all engineered foods mitigates a lot of health risks posed by their consumption.
 
Yes, dosing mice with a wildly unrealistic amount is a pretty common flaw in the methodology of such studies.

Yet, we do know for certain that the cumulative effect of frequently ingesting engineered foods is known to be responsible for harmful conditions like heart disease and type II diabetes.

The failure of a particular study doesn't invalidate the overarcing truth that avoiding all engineered foods mitigates a lot of health risks posed by their consumption.
I'm not sure what you mean regarding engineered foods. I think it is important to consider what you consume and the trade-offs involved. Generally good to consider the "no free lunch" heuristic, especially when it comes to things as simple as sugars/fats/calories.
 
engineered foods are things like cellulose or seed oils - ingredients that either have no nutritional content, are byproducts of some other industrial process, or just in everything because they're the most cost-efficient to produce at scale (e.g. palm).

basically, it's all the stuff you'd never think of putting into food if you were cooking it yourself.
 
i know anecdotes are about as useful as scented toilet paper, butt i thought i'd share for shits n giggles

there's this dude at work that has diabetes and eats almost nothing butt hot dogs, he says he makes stuff at home with sucralose and eats a lot of stuff with splenda (pretty sure that's branded sucralose)...

sitting in the next stall over from him is like visiting niagara falls after a flood rain.
 
yea i had a flirtation with sugar alcohols, it wasn't always a positive experience. i sweeten with stevia now and it works for me but apparently it really fucks with women's plumbing. hopefully not getting diabetes will outweigh whatever bad stevia might be doing
 
monkfruit extract is the only one my tongue likes. hopefully it doesn't make my dick fall off before i can have my third kid.
 
The biggest issue I have with sucralose is the deception widely reproduced that it's completely inert, unchanged in the gut, etc. It isn't. This is not about quantities given, or whether it's fed to rodents or donkeys. It's about a basic deception that internal research by the companies involved no doubt already disproved. Given that they don't have to publish that negative data, garbage like sucralose can be paraded as the next sugar panacea until 20+ years of real life data finally demonstrates that actually it's harmful in a number of ways.

When your only real objective is making money, and the regulatory systems designed to detect harm are underfunded or captured by corporate interests, do you really want to risk your health on the default presumption the existing body of scientific data is either fully representative or sound?
 
The biggest issue I have with sucralose is the deception widely reproduced that it's completely inert, unchanged in the gut, etc. It isn't. This is not about quantities given, or whether it's fed to rodents or donkeys. It's about a basic deception that internal research by the companies involved no doubt already disproved. Given that they don't have to publish that negative data, garbage like sucralose can be paraded as the next sugar panacea until 20+ years of real life data finally demonstrates that actually it's harmful in a number of ways.

When your only real objective is making money, and the regulatory systems designed to detect harm are underfunded or captured by corporate interests, do you really want to risk your health on the default presumption the existing body of scientific data is either fully representative or sound?
The second paper I linked does a pretty good job showing harm from sucralose in a rigorous manner.

I am biased to prefer science, because the claims are more transparent, so you can investigate them and make a decision for yourself. Also, good papers usually get followed up on, where weak papers don't inspire further research.

In general artificial sweeteners sketch me out. Sweetness perception is so hardwired to physiology, that I have a hard time believing that long term high doses of even the most inert sweetener will not be deleterious towards insulin production. However this is my opinion.
 
I am biased to prefer science, because the claims are more transparent, so you can investigate them and make a decision for yourself. Also, good papers usually get followed up on, where weak papers don't inspire further research.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say? What do you think I'm saying?
 
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say? What do you think I'm saying?
I think you are saying that there is an absence of negative data regarding sucralose, when it does exist (and by independant groups).
 
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I think you are saying that there is an absence of negative data regarding sucralose, when it does exist (and by independant groups).

Ah ok; I see what you're saying. I'm poor at explaining my thoughts, and that wasn't quite what I meant. I believe in the precautionary principle, and the sugar industry is already notorious for trying to misdirect science and regulatory bodies or conceal known (to them) harms or safety issues, sometimes for decades, until indepedent researchers (usually after significant harm has been detected) are finally able to get to the truth (though they're hardly alone in misframing science by concealing data). Ergo my abundant cynicism with sucralose, and initial industry assertions it is/was completely safe and inert.

FWIW, my interest in sucralose (or sweeteners more generally) isn't a recent thing. I was also part of a (failed) campaign that attempted to get Tate & Lyle - the inventors - to release their complete '70s rodent and primate research, prior to the introduction of the UK Sugar Tax. Industry here switched from sucrose to sucralose almost overnight in the majority of soft/fizzy drinks formulations, and in large numbers of processed foods, often without telling people they were making the switch. The inevitable concern is that industry is cashing in short-term and treating the public as guinea pigs. I'm open to the possibility it isn't, but as said above, also aware of how money can pervert science in the short to medium term.
 
Ah ok; I see what you're saying. I'm poor at explaining my thoughts, and that wasn't quite what I meant. I believe in the precautionary principle, and the sugar industry is already notorious for trying to misdirect science and regulatory bodies or conceal known (to them) harms or safety issues, sometimes for decades, until indepedent researchers (usually after significant harm has been detected) are finally able to get to the truth (though they're hardly alone in misframing science by concealing data). Ergo my abundant cynicism with sucralose, and initial industry assertions it is/was completely safe and inert.

FWIW, my interest in sucralose (or sweeteners more generally) isn't a recent thing. I was also part of a (failed) campaign that attempted to get Tate & Lyle - the inventors - to release their complete '70s rodent and primate research, prior to the introduction of the UK Sugar Tax. Industry here switched from sucrose to sucralose almost overnight in the majority of soft/fizzy drinks formulations, and in large numbers of processed foods, often without telling people they were making the switch. The inevitable concern is that industry is cashing in short-term and treating the public as guinea pigs. I'm open to the possibility it isn't, but as said above, also aware of how money can pervert science in the short to medium term.
This touches on a good point regarding how there is a lag between something new being invented/discovered and the research coming out on it.

Science is human and subject to its set of perverse incentives, so often there needs to be initial research on a specific topic to show other scientists that it is worth spending grant money and time chasing down. Once that first paper comes out, people will often apply their own specialties to either furthering or refuting the points raised in that first paper. It usually takes a while for experiments to be conceived, and published. Once this happens, there are usually enough dissenting viewpoints where different ideas can be pitted against each other, for the most rigorous one to rise to the top.

This means that except for situations like covid, where there was an extreme incentive to work on it (literally half the labs I knew at least started covid projects, some more full-assed than others), scientific knowledge trails the cutting edge.

This means that there will always be periods where the consequences of a new technology or development will be understudied. This is kind of built in to the scientific process, and helps prevent codifying weak data as dogma, but it definately causes science to be a fairly conservative (not in a political sense) institution.

Covid was a great example of this, as so many crap studies were pushed out quickly, that people were initially misled on issues like what drugs actually treat covid or whether it is transmisssble by contacting surfaces. It was only as the weak papers fell away, that the real answers became clear, after they were repeatedly upheld by independent studies.

I think this is at the core of your problem, (as usually industry funded research comes out the quickest, but it obviously has clear incentives to shade it's results).

I am not really offering a solution as I think it is kind of like the stastical problem of sampling, where you can either design an experiment to be prone to false positives or false negatives. Good science should avoid false positives, and simply perform robust enough work to overcome the false negatives, which by definition will take more time.

I guess the only thing I can say is that new technologies probably should be viewed with some credence for a number of years (especially depending what is being promised by those producing it), until there is a mass of good research on the topic.
 
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