Spanking/smacking children

[ebola?]

>>Now which would you prefer: to have to give your child a mild smack once or twice to teach them to stay away from the danger, or to let them experience the true consequences which will be more severe than a mere smack? Either way, the child learns the consequence for the action, you just choose the consequence >>

Which would I prefer? I'd prefer that we not deal in false dichotomies.

ebola

 

[Kirineuro]

Every day when im at work I see children misbehaving, and parents ignoring them. I see children throwing tantrums and being rude. And either their mothers laughing or letting them have their way.
I've been spat on by a 6 yr old boy and the mother just saying sorry to me, i've seen young girls tell their mothers to fuck off. I think i've almost seen it all.
But I never see parents disciplining their children, whether it be a harsh tone or a smack on the hand or a smack on the bottom.
And when I do see it, parents are usually so embarrassed about what they have said or done to their kids they actually apologize to me.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think children should be punished for acting like a child. But I think that a child acting unreasonable should have a parent to do something about it.
I was smacked as a child and I think I turned out okay (hehe), I will also smack my children. Come to think of it most of my friends were smacked. And they are all well adjusted young people.

So were you smacked as a child and will you/do you smack your own children?
What are your views on the subject?

I oppose coercion. Most of this asserting of authority is really a result of the fucked up society we find ourselves trapped in. HOORAY FOR FASCISM

LOL....."young girls telling their mothers to fuck off"
If I was mommy, I'd just be like, "OK." Then just walk away, and wait until my child is bawling and screaming "MOMMY!!!"

"Oh, I thought you wanted me to 'fuck off'? Did you change your mind?"

 

[up all night]

I will almost definitely smack my children. But I'd just like to point out the distinction between smacking a child on the bottom [or back of the legs] once, quickly, and actually hurting a child. I would never condone the use of a wooden spoon or belt and never anywhere except the places I specified.

I was smacked as a child and it was the most effective form of punishment for me when I was little. In reality, it never actually hurt, it was effective simply because of the shock value and the fact a smack meant I had been really, really naughty.

Sometimes children do not understand rational 'chats'. They are children and as toddlers really only understand the most basic of concepts. People are far too politically correct these days and absolutely obsessed with not wanting to appear to be doing the wrong thing.

I don't know anyone who has suffered from a few smacks - and people that say they fear their parents because of them are far too precious.

 

[Morrison's Lament]

It still sends the basic message that violence is an acceptable form of conflict resolution. As you said, they are children, do you think they can understand concepts like degrees? The shock of which you speak is substantial, a child won't FEEL like it was a small thing - if it did then it wouldn't be an effective punishment at all. No, the whole point is that the child feels something extreme has been done - and understands the power that this form of punishments holds over him/her and others.

The obvious conclusion to draw, for the child, is that larger and more powerful people are within their moral right to use physical violence to shock the smaller and weaker into submission. Then it's off to the playground...

--- G.

 

[bachus]

Well guys,
I am actually, as i post this, at the annual meeting of the Society for Developmental and Behavioral Pediatrics currrently running in San Diego. The attendees are both healthcare professionals (almost all doctors), specialists in this subject area, and educators in physician training universities and hospitals (mostly in the US but some from Canada, Australia and a handful from other countries). These guys know the actual research, did it, and peer reviewed it; almost all of it.

So at dinner last night, I asked a group of 12 around our table the question, (is hitting a child an option that parents should consider for correcting a child's behavior?) without getting specific as to what prompted it.

The answer was a unanimous "No, never."

"So", I asked, "what about the parent that says that it's the only thing that works for their child under some circumstances?"

The reply was equaly unanimous: "That parent needs professional help to develop more appropriate parenting skills."

B.

(if you haven't already seen it, check out Supernanny on ABC)

 

[Morrison's Lament]

I would hope and expect such answers, bachus, thanks for providing them.

Of course a lot of people are going to start ranting about doctors and universities, but try to just ignore the most irrational parts

--- G.

 

[SA]

The child psychiatrist I used to work with said something similar- that the *ONLY* time spanking is beneficial ...

That child psychiatrist should have been fired as soon as he uttered those words. I wouldn't even let him finish the sentence. Back to school for that idiot and hopefully on to a new profession.

I will almost definitely smack my children.

Why not get a dog first and practice on it. See if you enjoy the way it flinches every time you go to... caress it. If you end up enjoying the "positive" results your spanking is producing on the pup, then by all means go ahead and make a mini-me.

Spanking is for weak minded parents who can't bother taking the time to learn how to communicate with their offspring in the preferred chosen form of communication of the human species. They sure take the time to learn how to communicate effectively with everyone else around them, without a need for that "special occasion" smack. But no, their own kids are "special". They reserve those "special occasion" smacks for their kids because they LOVE them. 8)

Before you smack your kids, think for a second. If I was babysitting your child and I didn't like what the child was doing and I had a problem communicating with the child and went ahead and smacked him/her... every time I deemed it necessary, what would you say? Would you be upset? Would you let me babysit the child again? Yes? Okay then, if you would, then I would continue to smack, slap or spank the child whenever I deemed it necessary, within reason of course, my reason. What would you say or do then?

I would wager heavy money that you would take your child away and never let me near him/her again. I would wager big money that you would probably press charges against me for assault or child abuse. I would ask you then - "Why? Why are you doing this to me?". You would invariably answer something to the tune of "Who gave you the right to lay a hand on my child!".

Well... Who gave you the right to touch any child? Why are you punishing them for your own damn stupidity? Because they're yours?

I think anyone who is planning on spanking their children even before they've had the children should stick with that dog idea instead. Much better for the healthy evolution of our species' preferred communication - language.

 

[JerseyGirl]

I think that smacking's a good thing.

Provided it's done properly.

A swat or two on the back of th ehand and a sharp "You disobeyed me and did this, and now this happened."

It lets the kid know that what they did was wrong, why it was wrong, and inflicts some punishment. Just beating the hell out of the kid is wrong.

I also think that skinned knees, dodgeball and football are part of kids culture.

 

[SA]

I think that smacking's a good thing.

Provided it's done properly.

A swat or two on the back of th ehand and a sharp "You disobeyed me and did this, and now this happened."

It lets the kid know that what they did was wrong, why it was wrong, and inflicts some punishment. Just beating the hell out of the kid is wrong.

I see. So those are the instructions for spanking a child "properly". And this came from what educational source? Care to provide a link, please? Yes, something on Amazon.com will be fine, thank you.

Funny, googling "how to properly spank a child" brings bible.com as the top result.

 

[MazDan]

Up all night............ Just wondering......you said you didnt believe that it hurt......... Im guessing you mean there were no short or long term physical problems............

Im gunna ask you a question though and I would really appreciate an honest answer.........

Did you at all times while you were growing up, feel that you were able to openly talk about anything.........ie problems or uncertainties or seeking knowledge etc..........with your parents?

Now if your answer is no and that you were not always able to then that of course doesnt prove that your problems were similar to mine as I described above but it would certainly make me wonder.

I guess Im hoping it would also have you thinking a bit deeper as well.

 

[up all night]

SillyAlien: While I appreciate what you're saying I think your views are a little extreme. I am honestly yet to meet one person who was adversely affected by being smacked when they were extremely naughty - isn't that proof in itself that smacking is not as horrific as you make it out to be?

As DD said, and said very well, smacking should never be the ONLY form of punishment but sometimes it can be the most effective form.

For everyone who claims it teaches children that violence is okay, well... I actually find that kind of funny. You can actually smack a child and still instil the idea that violence against another is not okay. I was never struck in anger [while I'm sure sometimes my parents were angry they never showed and as I child I didn't link the two]. I have never been a violent person, not even as a child because when I was smacked it was as punishment not as a form of bullying.

Anyway, this argument is fairly redundant because it's not going to change my views. I've seen smacking, when done properly, used as a very effective disciplinary tool. I've also seen parents, who don't believe in smacking, struggle with out of control children even though they've tried all the parenting manuals they can lay their hands on.

 

[MissBehavin'_416]

I used to get a lot of spanking/slapping. Even with a belt so many times.
It was a normal thing for our teachers back home to serve us slaps. (7, 8, 9 yr old kids).

Will I slap my kid? I don't like kids enough as it is, so it's really not a good idea for me to have one.

 

[allan51]

It took three pages to get to it, but I'd like to reiterate the use of a swat on the hand or a spanking when the child put themselves in danger. a one-time "whoa, that's defintely not good" feeling when they do something like putting their hand near a stove, in conjunction with explaining it's "hot" or even just "danger" usually does the trick. Like someone else said, would a burnt hand or an electrical shock be better? don't think so. not punishment for misbehaving, but moreso creating a strong connection between certain actions and pain.

I have a incredibly intelligent step-2 year old, but explaining the reasons behind things sometimes just doesn't work. a simple, "it's danger" usually gets the point across. or if he is being mouthy or disobeying his mother, a "time out" is in order. we make him sit in one place, without touching a thing or talking for a couple minutes. he hates it, usually throws a fit, but calms down eventually and we explain why we put him in time out. after a kiss and a hug, we go back to normal life. he's 2, so you can't expect a perfect angel all the time, but lines have to be drawn when it comes to disobeying adults. (he got away with it at his grandparents for quite some time, and we're having to correct that mistake on their part on a daily basis now).

so is it ok to spank a child? I dunno. I was spanked on occasion, almost everyone I know was too. my dad had to cut his own switches. all turned into well-adjusted adults. discipline is fading art form if you ask me. parents are too scared to control their kids and the kids suffering because of it. spanking and abuse are obviously two different things here. Like the difference between swatting a puppy on the nose for bad behaviour and kicking the shit out it. One is to teach him not to repeat that behavior, the other is to lash out in frustration.

like DD said, parents: control your fucking kids in public places. reward them as much as possible for good behaviour, ignore them when they're throwing a tantrum to get their way, (or lately we've just been staring at the boy like we don't understand what he is saying. he usually comes around and remembers to ask nicely for what he wants). Its easy to get into a cycle of constantly trying to control a kids behaviour, which they naturally rebel against. guidance seems to be the key for us, with the occasional "listen, thats just the way it is, now eat your green beens or else"

 

[SA]

Those who think spanking is some awful act of violence, needs to grow a pair and let em drop a bit.

I simply think that it's stupid. Honestly, I just don't see any logic in it.

I am so sick and tired of seeing parents with kids who are out of fucking control. It's everywhere you go now. I don't blame this on the "liberals that don't spank" crowd, i blame this on the lazy parents crowd. Get your fucking shit together..or your kid will have my hand print on their ass and if the parent has a problem with it, i'll spank the parents ass too.

And if I were one of those parents, I would sue your ass off. But first, I'd make sure that I was bankrupt and on welfare, to piss you off even more. :D

(I would never be one of those parents, by the way)

Incidentally, the majority of conflicts I see between adults are kid related, caused no doubt by breaking your rule #2.

The problem is finding a way to reward and punish a child correctly based on their personality type and actually being consistent about it.

Absomafuckinglutely! There are 1001 ways out of every "no way out" situation, so why people adopt spanking as the only viable solution to any particular problem sure baffles the fuck out of me.

 

[CuriousCub]

the vast majority of kids are too physically small to have any physical punishment inflincted on them. Even if they are big, that doesn't justify the violence of spanking to control them. Since spanking is a subjective feeling, there is no way to prove how damaging or effective it is, so what's the point of doing it if the outcome is volatile and unpredictable? it's silly and strange to argue what the outcome will be when you aren't the one being spanked! If you feel you have to resort to hitting, regardless of the pressure, to control your kids, you obviously are unfit to be around kids. Otherwise, why are your kids so hard to control that is forcing you to think of spanking them? it's probably you that's causing the problem and you that needs to be helped.

I have similar thoughts on those that believe in hitting animals to control them. Most of the time it makes animals afraid of you, the inflincter, and hesistant and angry towards other people and other animals.

 

[SA]

I'm sitting back right now laughing, not b/c people wont spank their kids, but b/c the attitude and piss poor justification of why people shouldn't.. is a clear tale sign, some of people's kids will walk all fucking over you. And it's amusing.

People used to say that about beating women, slaves and even pet animals. Then they stopped laughing, finding it funny and , eventually, beating. Funny that. And don't even try to give me the piss poor reasoning that you're talking about spanking and I'm bringing up beating. If I hit you upside the head for lighting up a cigarette, because I knew your action was going to hurt you, you wouldn't give a fuck for a second what I called that , spanking or beating. You'd just want to take me down and beat some sense into me. The only reason you would do that to a child is because they couldn't stop you.

The way i see it, i have no serious psychological problems

I'd go for a second opinion if I were you.

 

[SA]

Show me a case where someone was totally ruined b/c they got their ass spanked?

(sorry, you asked ;P)

 

[Mysticalis]

The main problem with physical disciplinary action is the fact that what bad behavior justifies such action is subjective from parent to parent. Some parents have a great deal of patience and will only give their children a spanking under the most dire of circumstances, while others lack such patience and will hit their children for any little thing that sets them off. One man's discipline is another's abuse.


If I were a dad, would I spank my kids? Absolutely. Would I make a habit of it? No. Physical solutions are a last resort to me. If scolding and grounding don't get the point across and my child is still displaying intolerable misbehavior, then a swift kick in the ass is in due order.

 

[glitterbizkit]

I was smacked when I was a kid. not many times, maybe less than five, but they made a lasting impression on me (I was terribly wussy/sensitive as a kid)- I can still remember how it felt. But I'm sure it was done for a good reason. Some of my friends were beaten up , byt their dads mostly- even as teenagers. As far as I know most of them are completely normal, non-violent people, but their relationships with their parents (especially with the violent one) are not the best.

I agree with smacking used sometimes- but definitely not hard enough to do any damage to the child, and only in situations where reasoning will not work (eg child putting itself in danger). My mother never used to smack me hard, in fact I'm sure it barely hurt, it was more the sudden action, as well as the shame that left a lasting imprint in my brain. I'd like to think that I'd be able to raise my future children without smacking them, but you never know though do you?

 

[paradoxcycle]

Just playing devil's advocate here but recent, longitudinal and objective studies seem to show that even moderate spanking can have devastating results for a minority of children (particularly males) when they reach adulthood. IMO, physical punishment gives the message that "might makes right".

Edit to add: FYI, my brother and I were physically punished as children, open hand on the rear end, hand, mouth (me mostly, I was a smart ass) and occasionally the ruler or wooden spoon. I don't think it necessarily scarred us but I will tell you this- I don't let ANYONE hit me now and I never will again.