Addiction Tapering SSRI antidepressants

[plumbus-nine]

I feel hopelessly hooked on antidepressants. Got the first one (paroxetine) for social anxiety, not depression, with age 17, was too strong so replaced by venlafaxine 150mg. This for 10 years with a 9 month break, then because ineffective raised to 300mg and when this was too stimulating, a try with zoloft, then escitalopram and eventually fluoxetine 40mg. Now over time I developed strong adverse effects, very different from what one gets in the beginning, namely breasts from the high prolactin, weight gain (not sure if related) and loss of libido (this I mind less than the body shape, as I can still perform, just no desire for). But I got the recommendation to taper, and I want to be free of this medical crutch too.

Just all countless attempts so far failed. Depending on half life I'd rush into withdrawal after 1 (venlafaxine) and 5 (fluoxetine) days. I hoped that fluoxetine would be easier to get off as it has a week long half life and should theoretically taper itself but it isn't. After 5 days I got similar electric shocks in my head like with any of the others. With 20 I managed 9 months until I relapsed, but that was it, once some days with kanna (sceletium tortiosum, a herbal and quite potent SSRI), this felt like much help but of course still just replacing the SSRI. The electric shocks and restlessness is the worst but also diarrhea, shivers, strong depression and hopelessness, also craving(!). For me SSRIs are worse addictive than even morphine! I was on and now off morphine for good, granted not cold turkey but it wasn't hard to quit. Antidepressants are.

What can help me? 5-htp is too soft, I don't tolerate the amounts necessary (nausea). Kanna is just another SSRI. Slow tapering, do the hassle of mg-weighing the contents of pills? These pharma fuckers don't offer low strength pills, the lowest was 37.5mg venlafaxine and has been pulled, maybe to signal "our product is nonaddictive, no need for this". Or is it possible that my brain has changed permanently and now I just need some SSRI or go through months on end of agony? I don't support that.

 

[Jabberwocky]

So hang on, what are you actually on now...fluoxetine 40mg?

I had the same problem when tapering off of Amitriptyline (which I'm now back on), tricyclic and not SSRI I know but the process will be the same, as you said the pharma fuckers don't manufacture small enough doses to make it more comfortable to taper off of. I ended up buying a pill splitter on amazon, and scales with 3 decimal point accuracy, crushing the smallest quarter I could get out of the pill splitter and as you said going through the hassle of mg weighing the contents, over about 2 months. Halfway through the last week of the taper I introduced 1 x 5mg diazepam in the evening for 1 week, so during the final 3 or 4 days of the original taper and then during the following 3 or 4 days directly after the taper had finished. I found this helped, and I'm positive it would've been much worse if I didn't do any of the things I just mentioned. I'm now actually on an SSRI (Citalopram), and back on Amitriptyline...amongst other things.

 

[plumbus-nine]

I might try to extract fluoxetine out off the powder in pills and do volumetric dosing, that's easier. But yeah, amitriptyline is a strong SRI as well, just not a selective one. My dosage of fluoxetine should occupy over 90% of transporters and the curve isn't linear unfortunately, it rises steep and then flats out so finding the correct tapering model is a bit of a challenge.

What benefits do you get from amitriptyline and citalopram together? I tried to augment (fluoxetine & venlafaxine, fluoxetine & DXM) but as said, the SERT is already occupied so I only got headache and doc told me this was from "too much serotonin" BS.

 

[BenzoEnthusiast]

I know some one coming down off an ssri. He bought microscales and other equipment (tiny funnels,scoops etc) to slightly decrease his intake. 5% per month I believe. (They are capsules)

 

[Jabberwocky]

I might try to extract fluoxetine out off the powder in pills and do volumetric dosing, that's easier. But yeah, amitriptyline is a strong SRI as well, just not a selective one. My dosage of fluoxetine should occupy over 90% of transporters and the curve isn't linear unfortunately, it rises steep and then flats out so finding the correct tapering model is a bit of a challenge.

What benefits do you get from amitriptyline and citalopram together? I tried to augment (fluoxetine & venlafaxine, fluoxetine & DXM) but as said, the SERT is already occupied so I only got headache and doc told me this was from "too much serotonin" BS.

They're actually supposed to be treating two separate problems. Amitriptyline (plus Pregabalin) is for neuropathic pain I suffered from injuries but was then exacerbated by chemotherapy last year. Citalopram is for depression/anxiety, which I've just this week switched to from Sertraline, the switch was actually fairly hassle free, but they've started me on a lower equivalent dose of the Citalopram so I'm gonna have to wait for the increase. The Sertraline did nothing but give headaches.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Once one is tolerant, switching between SSRIs is indeed hassle free, I wouldn't even feel the difference between some. Yeah, I'm on fluoxetine 40mg now but taken only every 2-3 days, it takes 5 for withdrawal symptoms to kick in. Once I took 120mg just for the sake of it and it was NO different from 40mg but provided a longer time before withdrawal.

Yeah, then I understand why you take amitriptyline. In some countries they even make creams with amitriptyline or ketamine for topical application in neuropathic pain. But possibly you could just skip the citalopram when dosage of ami is high enough, they compete for SERT and the more potent one wins but don't add up on effects unless dosage is very low.

I'm on pregabalin as well, but for anxiety, it helps good and is well tolerated by the body besides that it is quite addictive as well - yet more like opioids, a strong but short withdrawal.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The worst thing about coming off of or even just reducing Amitriptyline is that it inflames the pain it is supposed to be preventing...to levels that are worse than they were before you started the medication...it's a total cunt honestly I don't think I'll ever get off it, and I'm only on a relatively small dose now....which I reduced of my own decision, which leads me to this : I think when you say you're "hopelessly hooked", I totally understand what you're saying, and I know that "medical crutch" feeling that you're talking about very very well, and for me it's very depressing in itself and destroys a lot of positive or confident cognitive processes. But, instead of feeling the "hooked" and "crutch" feelings, have you ever tried thinking well I just need them and that's how it is...I hope that doesn't sound patronising, but that is basically how I'm starting to try to come to terms with taking the antidepressant meds, though I've not taken them for as long as you have so it may of course be very different to think about.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Also, I see why you want rid of them with the adverse effects they are now producing, but how are you going to feel without the medication you maybe actually need? are the adverse effects worse than the problems that will return if you stop the meds?

 

[plumbus-nine]

I think the depression on withdrawal is induced by the medicament itself, like you say about the amitriptyline, and the other symptoms are clear abstinence stuff like diarrhea, electric shocks/brain zaps etc., so it's really more an addiction than real need for an antidepressant. BUT you might be right about that I need some aspects of more serotonin like flattened affect, I was too emotional before but for this the pregabalin alone should work. I thought for years that I just need the meds but my body shape is horrible now, of course with more exercise I might as well give a positive influence but if I can just get rid of this antidepressant for good I'd be happy to. It could be worse, I know many people NEED to take medicine but specially then I want to find out whether I really need it.

I primarily wrote "hooked" so that it's clear that I can't just stop or that it was just in my mind.

 

[Nas47]

Tapper to lower possible dose zoloft-on 25mg and still quitting is imposible.I think that poison is forlife

 

[plumbus-nine]

Tapper to lower possible dose zoloft-on 25mg and still quitting is imposible.I think that poison is forlife

You could try 5-htp and kanna, at low dose (75mg venlafaxine) these helped me to stop. Tried again when I was on 150mg and for longer time, it didn't work anymore but certainly did in other time.

 

[Nas47]

My third addiction this zoloft,along with valium and bupr.It doesn't do a shit as to depression-just create another addiction.Personally never will advice somebody to took ad drugs.There are other mild and effective alternatives for sure.As to venlafaxin heard that this is one of the most difficult to quitt.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I think the depression on withdrawal is induced by the medicament itself, like you say about the amitriptyline, and the other symptoms are clear abstinence stuff like diarrhea, electric shocks/brain zaps etc., so it's really more an addiction than real need for an antidepressant. BUT you might be right about that I need some aspects of more serotonin like flattened affect, I was too emotional before but for this the pregabalin alone should work. I thought for years that I just need the meds but my body shape is horrible now, of course with more exercise I might as well give a positive influence but if I can just get rid of this antidepressant for good I'd be happy to. It could be worse, I know many people NEED to take medicine but specially then I want to find out whether I really need it.

I primarily wrote "hooked" so that it's clear that I can't just stop or that it was just in my mind.

Yes I agree if you don't try to stop them you don't know if you need them. But I kind of go with the motion, speaking subjectively of course, that if an anxiety disorder was present in teenage years, it won't have disappeared over time and may well have even become worse. I sympathise with your dilemma of adverse effects of antidepressants vs potential disorders returning in force if meds are stopped, it's tough stuff. But I think if any of your original social anxiety returns at unmanageable levels, you definitely shouldn't feel bad or hooked if actually some meds do actually manage them. Personally I wish you every success with however you choose to taper, and if you don't need meds after the taper that's wonderful and a huge achievement. I'd love to get off the Amitriptyline and Citalopram and Pregabalin but I honestly think I'll be on them forever. I tried the syringe measurement taper with the Pregab before but it doesn't fully dissolve so it messed the whole thing up, specially when we're talking about minuscule reductions..you ever tried coming off Pregab? Fuck me I struggled so badly I know now I'm never stopping it. I should mention that the Pregabalin is combination therapy with the Amitriptyline to manage the neuropathic pain I have, so I'll never get off it for that reason too.

 

[Jabberwocky]

My third addiction this zoloft,along with valium and bupr.It doesn't do a shit as to depression-just create another addiction.Personally never will advice somebody to took ad drugs.There are other mild and effective alternatives for sure.As to venlafaxin heard that this is one of the most difficult to quitt.

Zoloft isn't an addiction it's a prescribed medication to manage a disorder of some type. It's only an addiction if you're purposely going out of your way to obtain more and more of it to chase a euphoric feeling...which Sertraline isn't exactly known to give.

 

[Nas47]

I drink zoloft from 7 months.Always at lower dose 25mg.Never ever helped me in any way.Try to quitt two times...and after 48 h hell burst out.Its very very addictive.I am junkie from 25 years and have been addicted to numerous substances...so i know very well what i am talking about

 

[Jabberwocky]

I drink zoloft from 7 months.Always at lower dose 25mg.Never ever helped me in any way.Try to quitt two times...and after 48 h hell burst out.Its very very addictive.I am junkie from 25 years and have been addicted to numerous substances...so i know very well what i am talking about

Having withdrawal symptoms from stopping a medication does not make it an addiction. People who take blood pressure tablets are reliant on them, and if they stopped they too would have withdrawal symptoms..but this does not make them addicted to blood pressure tablets, it's a requirement for better health, not an addiction. There is a clear distinction between the two.

 

[Nas47]

Ok its not addiction.But it does not help and i can stop it,cause i am feeling sooo sick in da head,that death looks like a vacantion.How would this call this?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Ok its not addiction.But it does not help and i can stop it,cause i am feeling sooo sick in da head,that death looks like a vacantion.How would this call this?

You mentioned that you are also taking Diazepam and buprenorphine yes? I would first of all say that mix does not give good thoughts (I am also on opioids, benzos, Pregabalin, Amitrityline and an SSRI antidepressant daily, plus cocaine thrown on top) So, I would suggest that the addiction is in the opioid/benzo part...not the Zoloft part. I know it's horrible trying to come off an SSRI completely I did it with Citalopram a few years back and bad things happened. So, if the Zoloft is not actually giving you adverse effects (the talk of death and sick in the head I personally would say those thoughts come from the opioid/benzo part) I am not a doctor or a therapist, but like you I've been in this game a long time with various problems. If Zoloft isn't helping, could you go to a doctor and suggest changing to a lower dose of another SSRI? again maybe stopping them altogether is worse than taking it. I know the pharma industry executives are obviously total bastards just like the gambling industry executives are, they know people in our position are going to produce a steady income. But we can't change that.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Ok its not addiction.But it does not help and i can stop it,cause i am feeling sooo sick in da head,that death looks like a vacantion.How would this call this?

But the other side of the coin is that it's not impossible to taper off an SSRI with methods mentioned in this thread, with tiny adjustments over months...people do do it, but it takes a lot of patience and a lot of understanding from anyone close to you, but the hellish feelings do subside...I know some people it affects differently and there will always be something different in how they feel or think, but they're still glad to be off the SSRI.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I had a really horrible withdrawal starting like a month after I got off an SSRI. Several months since then, I'm doing pretty well in the realm of depression. Thought it might help to share.