College The student loan trap (rant thread)

[JackARoe]

I can say with hands on heart you are just echo chamber of undeveloped concepts.

I am honored I ruffled your feathers. Shady. We do need humans inside our human beings though. I would start developing that notion. I'll check back in a year to see the progress.

 

[Shady's Fox]

I am honored I ruffled your feathers. Shady. We do need humans inside our human beings though. I would start developing that notion. I'll check back in a year to see the progress.

Nmmm...

 

[brokedownpalace10]

You bring up an excellent point. What I thought of is two years ago we had our roof redone. When the insurance guy came out he sent a drone up to take pictures. Some years earlier people were sent up so that is an example of automation taking the place of humans.

The other good point is human interaction is going to be needed with a lot of professions. Not just traditional roles. Yes AI can write code if it is defined correctly. The definition is where a human is needed. So I believe AI is a long way away from being self sufficient. Also if we do make it that far with AI a robot will be created to fix a leaky pipe under a house. All of that is a long way away. And it will take programmers to help develop. Then just after that humans become redundant. Like the Matrix. Or we will be used for batteries.

It is funny I had mentioned I am sick of computers. Just before covid I was thinking if I were a waiter or chef I would always have a job as people go out to eat a lot. As covid went on I saw restaurants and other places to eat shut down, which over rode any bright idea I had about always having work as a waiter. We never know what makes anything obsolete.

Given the amount of jobs out there for database work I still think it will be a good profession for years to come. But I do agree on the traditional trades being the safest. My brother manages car dealerships and many years ago computers were taking over. Yet they still need humans around for clarity and other traditional things that a robot can not do. Yet. We'll check back in 50 to 100 years.

Jobs replaced with AI's and computers in general will generally still need a human involved.
They're trying to automate long distance trucking now. From all I've read, the trucks will still need a human on board to take care of emergencies. However, that human will require little in the way of skills and would likely make minimum wage.

I'm a retired machinist. CNC (almost) replaced manual machining years ago. However, each machine still requires a tender and a set-up man will keep 4-5 machines running.
Those 4-5 machines (so, 5-6 people) probably do the work of 50 manual machinists (and fabricators) at least. And, the tenders are unskilled and don't make much.
As the machine tools start to change parts and check dimensions, you will require even less humans, but you will still need some.

A fine point, admittedly. Replacing 50 people with one well paid and 5 poorly paid individuals is still replacing people.

 

[JackARoe]

Nmmm...

I am speaking for all of us. Save the humans.

Jobs replaced with AI's and computers in general will generally still need a human involved.

Lots of things will. Again people do not know what they are asking for. A discussion to obtain definition can not happen with a machine. But a good example of what was obsolete were toll collectors. And even there you can find people in booths still. But mostly automated.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

. A discussion to obtain definition can not happen with a machine. But a good example of what was obsolete were toll collectors. And even there you can find people in booths still. But mostly automated.

Right. Correct me if I'm wrong but my impression is that AI is still basically developing a computer which will pass the Turing test and not actual intelligence (awareness?).
I could be wrong. Stuff's getting ahead of me. I'm just an appliance operator now.

I'll bet there is one person running that whole row of automated toll booths. He makes more than a toll booth operator used to, but it is still one job instead of many.

 

[JackARoe]

So yes, it will be able to streamline some things, but at the same time it will take away a lot of jobs! If you don't understand this, then I feel sorry for you. Many people will lose their jobs, for example, IT specialists, accountants, various services, writers, even artists. Therefore, people will soon realize that they made a big mistake by creating artificial intelligence.

I can definitely feel sorry for myself. Have the quintessential pity party. But I think we are saying the same thing. Of course jobs are taken. Ever since software accountants have been out of work for years.

I had to take an AI course for work. Codewhisperer. While it can do a lot, still needs a human to direct it. That is all I am saying. But yes, if 10 people are working they can cut it down to 1 or 2 in addition to software, code and AI.

This will really take off in the years to come. It is still green. I agree it is a mistake. I blame CEO's and all the top managements of the corporate world. They only care about bottom line and their charts. The do not care about people and make decision like this for their own bonuses. Outsourcing is similar. You can pay people in other countries pennies as opposed to people in the US. To me it is slightly racist but of course they all pat themselves on the back when they get rid of people and save money. And now in 2023 it does not even matter if a person can do the job. They can be place holders, clients leave and companies fold. And the attitude is who gives a crap, as long as the top brass make their $$ in a certain time period and get out.

Hopefully none of this affected you Dominic. I sense it did. It will affect all of us. But I too think it is a mistake. It is all about the bottom line and it is way worse in 2023 than it was in 1950. No one cares about f*ck all anymore. That attitude is the issue. AI is AI.

 

[AutoTripper]

Anybody take out student loans that will likely never be paid in full? I did

The very first day of grad school, our entire cohort was in a classroom and one of the profs literally told us not to work while in school, that student loans were a better option that could be paid back with the wonderful careers we would get after graduating. Big mistake. I think only one or two out of the whole group worked at least part time jobs. The rest of us fell for the lie.

I think my total after a little bit in undergrad and for a two year grad program was around $80K. I've always been on a payment program based on earnings, which means a sizable chunk each month but with enough left over for rent and food. After nearly 10 years of making the minimum payments, my balance has increased by over $10K due to interest accrued.

What bothers me is, if people like Alex Jones can file bankruptcy to avoid paying their defamation lawsuits, why can't we claim bankruptcy to relieve ourselves of this predatory crippling lifetime of debt? Believe me, if I could sue the professor or my university for selling us into taking out loans, I would. But I don't think that is even an option and if there was, surely there is a statute of limitations that has expired. Hell, I was full blown mentally ill and on Disability payments while in grad school, so I could even claim my believing I could get a high paying career was a delusion of grandeur. I just don't know what to do other than hope for some kind of reprieve from my rich Uncle Sam.

LESSON: If any of you find yourselves in a similar situation, please treat it like gambling. Either don't do it at all or only take out what you can easily pay back and supplement the rest with grants, scholarships, or by working. I would honestly advise not doing it at all. I've seen articles of people who only took out $20K, paid like $10K in monthly payments, and with interest accrued still end up owing quadruple the original amount.

I get annual (used to be quite a vicious actual threat too).. ahem, reminders to prove around summer ish I am not earning over x amount.


I never will since Lyme scrapped employableness after degree anyway.


But, they were so threatening, demanding, confrontational accusatory virtually like, guilty until otherwise.


I do not bow to this tyranny. I cannot. So I did not.

in truth I rejected me having to work my arse into proving truth the Student Loans Company can surely confirm their lazy selves.

Personally I think it is a sly bully tactic, because they re-write you 3 or 4 times increasingly threateningly about imminent court action.


Well just they f try lol. I was often so engaged too in vital daily health battles, and I did not wish to comply (what was it... You have15 seconds to comply!)

Because it was an act for start. But they never went away, no reality to the threats either.


Last summer I refused. F them. Ignored all threat letters.

Finally a non threatening letter letting me know it's okay they don't need my cooperation here now they are obtaining from HMRC (HerMajestysRoyalCrop right?)


My OG point. I'm sure they always know but can mimic inquiry to instill fear.


No likelihood of me paying back a penny, they surely know too and hate it.

Interest amounts. I bet it's nearly 20,000 GBP owed now.

Was 1999-2003 though so I did also get a free £1000 grant, and all grants available due to low means.

I forget if was per term or annuum.

Final year applied for hardship loan and emergency grant together. 500 & 1000 respectively.

Was in building 5 minutes, easy 1500 given to me no q's past an overdrawn bank statement.

I had thousands in grants never owed back at least.

I went to a brilliant seaside university and really let hair down grew had a mystical time.


However I am baffled on one thing.

I have to consider it may be this infamous "Mandela Effect" or something.


1999 summer I was readying 1st term in September to leave home.

I had the official Student Loans paperwork, contract, fineprint etc.

My mum and I read it properly ofc.


We shared the reality from start entirely, it stated so clearly (I was 19, well, v capable academically and generally never prone to imagination or mis-record)

That repayments would automatically commence without my part direct from employer as soon as earning £15,000 annually.



Now we are damn sure I prepared for and entered University knowing that to be a written recorded fact in my possession.



Longer story shorter some time on, yr at least, I couldn't find that piece of paperwork again, after I discovered they were reclaiming at £10,000 not 15.

I spoke on phone to them. A woman. I was like nah, man I HAD that contract in 1999, I SAW it, my MUM did. You're lying, bs. It said like daytime 15,000.

She rejected this insisting it had always and only ever been 10,000 GBP.


I could find no record of the 15,000 anywhere online.

As if a part of reality was changed basically, the only single actual firm shared consistent experience I've ever had of that nature.


I can't explain it ever because it's non sensical. CERN maybe? lol


Because 10,000 is way too meagre to be paying loan interest on rest life.

And 15 ain't lots either. Practically bread-line.


But ED-209 gives no shit about that.

Because that's a successfully careered self financed student to found your business model on catching as many as you can..


I never think about my accruing student depts will look at the bridge if come to it, require miracle so if so I might be Superman lol.

ED's another system brute I am glad, I'll owe and have pillaged from into my next incarnation (I feel it's gonna be a big one too)

 

[AutoTripper]

Lol just reading above, trust my beloved bird man to have played Devil's advocate again literally, again, missing the reality.

They ARE fucking govt backed loan sharks.

And that £10 whenever, it's more like £5-7.50 a week possibly at £10,000

And the interest probably outrises it.

So it is by design flaw or not (I think not!) a trap!

 

[AutoTripper]

I am honored I ruffled your feathers. Shady. We do need humans inside our human beings though. I would start developing that notion. I'll check back in a year to see the progress.

He tells YOU that, as well? lmao.

It's the sparkling bright light you see. It's understandable and quite excusable too.

Nobody's fault they can't face that light, it highlights their own hideousness they might not be brave enough to face this time around.


I really appreciate this one, it all knits. Nothing "bad" ever was set upon me but extreme uncanny inhuman feat challenge as rare opportunity for exponential growth in life no comfort zone in map's memory.


And you'd be a bit stunned to really appreciate just HOW totally strangely too isolated I live, a real virtual Aladdin's cave.


It's the higher it has to separate us types hard as SEEMS for great cause.


So it's just part of the play and script for Shadowy characters to lunge spit and pull down.

Fact you get identical iterations is another (not needed) proof of my appreciation here.

 

[Salem_is_tired]

As I future McDonald's employee (so undergrad/ba student, who studies humanities in Hungary), I would say we are pretty fucked, but in a different sense as the USA.

We are just a big and long Southpark episode at this point. (The fucking "pedophile" book ban is just laughable, especially the recent news)

 

[AutoTripper]

As I future McDonald's employee (so undergrad/ba student, who studies humanities in Hungary), I would say we are pretty fucked, but in a different sense as the USA.

We are just a big and long Southpark episode at this point. (The fucking "pedophile" book ban is just laughable, especially the recent news)

I worked at McDonald's after my not nice Pizza Hut uproad boss practically forced me to resign in sly dirty manner but tbf I had truly cocked up to bring it about

Age 16, 96 I tripped on LSD 1st time got 63 black microdots Friday evening also already had 2 original Californian Sunrisers for that night, wasn't planning 1st trip but no fear about it.

Wasted 16 yr old on Sunrises two Pizza Hut co-workers visited midnight to get few dots.


My older but sound really weed smoker drinker kitchen supervisor one, his best friend and real close one of mine through time.


Well of my face on exstacy I tucked the bag of dots under arm chair before seeing peeps out.


Forgot. Hours later realised wasn't aware where they were. Stewing, searched everywhere found nothing.


Building paranoia Martin had nabbed them.


Well I only only sought pure harmless rectification.

We went to just see him I'm intuitive knew I'd instantly tell if he had.

Nobody there but open window upstairs flat drainpipe.

I only hoped to quickly find my acid, and chip.

Wasn't there but my friend picked up his bank card and I went to Saturday night shift Pizza Hut, ONLY Martin & I in kitchen too, dead dead quiet.

So much so he sent me home 8 pm, but never went home cos second I arrived work immediately was certain he'd not taken my trips!

Shiiiiit! We'd entered flat, friend spent over 600 on his card by Midnight.

And a little more salt in the wound.


Sunday midday, I fucking located them under that arm chair!

I took half Friday night after 1st searching, they'd tried cutting one half shot onto carpet I found that ate it.

I was in a STATE though Sunday, already had been.

Still took some, maybe 3 by midnight when they reached our house thumping the door, my mum awoken.


I had to go down tail under legs not fully dressed


Was due posh private school 9 am Monday.

And sit hours hours Martin, his FUMING girlfriend her brother and luckily my friend, my mum explaining everything lol!

Tripping bad bad trip 1st time ever.


Out town gang had got involved too, my other mate's Dad violent lot had driven to Martin's with weapons.


I had to accompany them all night to try find friend, diffuse, sort out etc.

Let alone what to do re bank fraud, etc.


What a hard night. I stood up though, was open honest brave.


We gave him some money plus 1 OZ hashish, and he never reported it seeing the potential I had as a young man, appreciating we were both good people, and it wasn't my wish at all to enact injustice.

Lucky!



Pizza kitchens were too stressful, depression inducing though.

While McDonald's was a park walk, I uses to take powerful slices of space cake with my break meal lol. Never easy thing at Pizza Hut.

 

[assclass]

it's funny because student loans have decreased access to education for lower classes while essentially subsidizing the wealthiest students. look at ivy league endowments. they dont need government money, they can fund education.

the easier it is to fund education the more dumbasses going to school and devaluing education.

school is for smart people. dumb people dont really learn, they just get degrees and pretend!

 

[AutoTripper]

it's funny because student loans have decreased access to education for lower classes while essentially subsidizing the wealthiest students. look at ivy league endowments. they dont need government money, they can fund education.

the easier it is to fund education the more dumbasses going to school and devaluing education.

school is for smart people. dumb people dont really learn, they just get degrees and pretend!

Tb right honest as well man, without those v v handy no terms free I am thinking termly about 1200 pounds maybe if not more need check now.


I would have struggled and had such an inferior limiting experience so there yes that could be said.

I was truly lucky, v soon after I went grants vanished I think fees maybe shot up too ? -astoly.

 

[assclass]

Tb right honest as well man, without those v v handy no terms free I am thinking termly about 1200 pounds maybe if not more need check now.


I would have struggled and had such an inferior limiting experience so there yes that could be said.

I was truly lucky, v soon after I went grants vanished I think fees maybe shot up too ? -astoly.

I struggle to understand what you are talking about despite having an excellent grasp of the English language.

I bet you have more degrees than I do.

 

[The Shadow Self]

Besides the cost-prohibitive nature of higher education in general, the entire idea of the "federally guaranteed" student loan is a trap in general by virtue of this "federally guaranteed loan", making it impossible for you to get rid of it in the absence of paying it off. All the while, the interest continues to grow on the balance, ad infinitum, until it is in fact paid off. Therefore, even if you have nothing, file for bankruptcy, the loans stay in place and the balance will continue to grow, of course. So there is essentially no escaping it. Not making a judgment regarding paying or not, relief or not, but I certainly understand the frustration of those that owe what may essentially be the price of a home to live in as debt, and with the diminishing value of the degree in general, you can find yourself trapped in a form of debt prison as the value of a college degree is less and less. Not to mention what's going on with the diminishing value of the dollar and a collapsing economy.

 

[AutoTripper]

I struggle to understand what you are talking about despite having an excellent grasp of the English language.

I bet you have more degrees than I do.

Sorry for ambiguities I do actually strive to never be mis-taken, I have my own way with words since ever though, I do make up new I believe valid too contextual conjugations about daily, also my own non-dictionary slang adaptations for free roam non pedantic expression, but all totally naturally though, zero artificiality ever.


Now degrees. Nah you'll beat me bro. Ask me anything dare you. Anything won't get me arrested or cost money lol.

I keep no secrets best way.

So I did not complete my final year in 2003, I chose joint Philosophy & Psychology, right down my street.

Swansea had real top departments both those two.

I could so easily have done straight Philosophy, and graduated blindfolded.

I never liked homework, never revised, winged my way but DID pay attention in class.

No revision Uni 1st Yr exams June 2000, I was taking best green MDA pills at time and smoking blunts of original Orange Bud all day, including exam mornings as I skimmed through one essay I'd done, encoding it 3 lines per time into my visual memory cortex, in 30 minutes while smoking 1.5 grams best Skunk get really, or don't get, now.

It worked! Betting on most likely q option.

Took lecture notes scribbles 4 A4 sides only legible to me alone lol, per lecture.


Wasted off my tree I skimmed them until handed to examiners top stairs exam time.


Still passed all well.


2nd year mmm. Exstacy every day during exams. Well well messy.

My housemates, straight, could not believe when I'd passed with 56% overall.

a 2:2. 60-70 is a 2:1

70 up 1st, think get "1st with distinction" too like "A☆"

40-50 = a 3rd.

Final year is 2/3 2nd 1.

So at 56%, off my tree zero revision, about 62% final enough for a 2:1.

However I never did study, especially psychology practical project stuff including stats.


Was a course requirement to conduct a large study full full statted out, 2 year work really requiring so much reg time.


Hand in March before June exams else no degree.


So that year 2002, 2003 September to June I took over 900 exstacy pills alone, and the rest.

No way was my project even starting.


While Philosophy straight, definitely easy task still essays in, still scribbled out made up, pass exams in any condition.


I received a "Diploma" for completing 2 yrs of study, certificate went lost in post TWICE though.


I'm not actually bothered!



My school was very very good all round though. Fully equipped big rich private, I was one of last 2 ever to win a govt assisted place free fees, 1000's a term, free bus pass, free amazing school dinners.


We had Latin which was fun.

GCSE's, 16, pre "A Levels" 18

I got...

French B
English Literature A
Art A
English Language A☆
P.E. (sport stuff) D
Science "Double Award" (3 subjects together) B B
Maths C
History B
Edit forgot Geography B

I was surprised at the English language one, to me at time it seemed too simple but I took it for granted it was to become my own forte in life, a handy one too.

 

[Pickledlemons]

So in Australia we have a different system, but still fucked compared to the golden years.

When my parents went to uni under Gough Whitlam, they went for free. The outcome of this policy was that the world of teriary education was opened wide to those Australians who otherwise would never have dreamt of affording University. Like my mother for example, a first generation Italian immigrant from Venice who spoke Italian until she attended school and never spoke English at home. My dad was fine.

At some point the successive governments decided that this was no longer sustainable so they implemented Higher Education Something Something Debt. It's called a HECS debt. It's an interest free loan you only have to pay back after you start making money past a certain level, so if you're dirt poor you don't have to stress. And it never increases.

It's not a perfect system, as if you're me and did a double major in German Studies and Modern History plus a full Law degree as well as a Graduate Diploma of Legal Practice, including 3 attempts at contract law due to the level of your addiction at the time well by the end your debt is around $90,000 all up, and you can just chuck on that $7000 Overseas Help Loan you got from the government to study your final German credit overseas too at that stage. I mean what's the damn difference?

The issue is, we get saddled with debt too. I cannot even comprehend my level of debt and I don't have to pay it off yet due to being on disabilty for the foreseeable future. How the fuck did I amass a $90,000 debt from going to university? And why on earth do boomers my parents age who got their fucking degree free of change criticise my generation for complaining about massive debts? That is absolutely absurd.

I am grateful that our system is marginally better than the United States. But it's really not by much.

Yeah Canada's system is a little better (pretty much just, tuition is cheaper - and the government debt is written off after 7 years.) but has the same root problem... profiteering in the education system.

 

[MaxDailies]

The issue of student loans can be a real challenge in many places. It's great that you're bringing attention to the problems in the education system. While it might not directly address student loans, if you ever need financial advice on various aspects, you could consider reaching out to a Mortgage Broker in Wolverhampton. They can provide insights and guidance to help navigate the world of finance.

 

[Salem_is_tired]

I worked at McDonald's after my not nice Pizza Hut uproad boss practically forced me to resign in sly dirty manner but tbf I had truly cocked up to bring it about

Age 16, 96 I tripped on LSD 1st time got 63 black microdots Friday evening also already had 2 original Californian Sunrisers for that night, wasn't planning 1st trip but no fear about it.

Wasted 16 yr old on Sunrises two Pizza Hut co-workers visited midnight to get few dots.


My older but sound really weed smoker drinker kitchen supervisor one, his best friend and real close one of mine through time.


Well of my face on exstacy I tucked the bag of dots under arm chair before seeing peeps out.


Forgot. Hours later realised wasn't aware where they were. Stewing, searched everywhere found nothing.


Building paranoia Martin had nabbed them.


Well I only only sought pure harmless rectification.

We went to just see him I'm intuitive knew I'd instantly tell if he had.

Nobody there but open window upstairs flat drainpipe.

I only hoped to quickly find my acid, and chip.

Wasn't there but my friend picked up his bank card and I went to Saturday night shift Pizza Hut, ONLY Martin & I in kitchen too, dead dead quiet.

So much so he sent me home 8 pm, but never went home cos second I arrived work immediately was certain he'd not taken my trips!

Shiiiiit! We'd entered flat, friend spent over 600 on his card by Midnight.

And a little more salt in the wound.


Sunday midday, I fucking located them under that arm chair!

I took half Friday night after 1st searching, they'd tried cutting one half shot onto carpet I found that ate it.

I was in a STATE though Sunday, already had been.

Still took some, maybe 3 by midnight when they reached our house thumping the door, my mum awoken.


I had to go down tail under legs not fully dressed


Was due posh private school 9 am Monday.

And sit hours hours Martin, his FUMING girlfriend her brother and luckily my friend, my mum explaining everything lol!

Tripping bad bad trip 1st time ever.


Out town gang had got involved too, my other mate's Dad violent lot had driven to Martin's with weapons.


I had to accompany them all night to try find friend, diffuse, sort out etc.

Let alone what to do re bank fraud, etc.


What a hard night. I stood up though, was open honest brave.


We gave him some money plus 1 OZ hashish, and he never reported it seeing the potential I had as a young man, appreciating we were both good people, and it wasn't my wish at all to enact injustice.

Lucky!



Pizza kitchens were too stressful, depression inducing though.

While McDonald's was a park walk, I uses to take powerful slices of space cake with my break meal lol. Never easy thing at Pizza Hut.

Oh man, I wish I had that much fun while working at KFC :D Most of my managers were bitches, you could have never done enough for them, they always found something they can complain about.

 

[AutoTripper]

Oh man, I wish I had that much fun while working at KFC :D Most of my managers were bitches, you could have never done enough for them, they always found something they can complain about.

Just unimportant for now weak insecure shallow vain jealous narcissist manipulative power mongerers.

Lol just hit them with that exact line showing full emotional control and zero reaction. Would be an interesting facial expression I imagine lol.


I suggest beginning with "You do realise don't you Alarmus (could be a name, possibly lol) that you are..... (followed by precisely the above)


It's what I see as pretty harmless fun with the otherwise never learning shifting and low vibing unhappy lonely.... LEMMING!

Mate that was just the START as well.

I'm sure I have too many by definition incredible spectacular tales which never pop into type, easy easy telling, hard word typing and types of tales, experiences can only be done full otherwise easy justice.

I've a knack for telling stories too, because only ever is there total truth, recount.

I observed people past, felt their stories were thrillier inventing, rearranging to point of total different scene.

When you can tell the best and entirely congruent most enriched stories, by sticking only to truth.