I can't respond to all of this because it's too much, so I'll pick some key things.
I wasn't accusing you of being progressive, I was just talking in general.
I don't necessarily have a problem with a trans person requesting the use of certain pronouns. What I don't like is that everyone in society is supposed to declare their pronouns now. It's stupid. Trans people are 1 in 10,000 - 1 in 16,000. It makes more sense to modify speech according for a very small minority than it is to get everyone to engage in behaviours that cause identity confusion. The overwhelming majority of the world are cis so it should not be offensive that people assume other people are cis until they are corrected. Instead we are supposed to now assume everybody may not be cis and do a discovery process based on pronoun preferences. I think it's mental.
Most androgynous people I've met - that's what they were called btw before this non-binary nonsense started - don't care if you refer to them as he or she. They have grown up in a world that treats them ambiguously. But the English language has pronouns so you have to pick one. I'm not going to call a person "they" unless they are an unknown agent who is not present.
Next... of course cis people don't ask each other about their junk. Because trans people are rare, we assume everyone is cis until corrected. I don't think that's wrong. Secondly, people who are "just friends" don't ask each other about their junk on the first meeting. That only happens when sex is involved.
Are you for real? The configuration of a person's genitals is crucial to sexual orientation. I may be attracted to you because you are male passing but if you take off your pants and I see you have a vagina I will be instantly turned off AND offended because I fucking told you I AM GAY which means I am into MALES. It's leading someone on to not disclose this information... and YES you are obligated to disclose it because trans men are not the same as cis men no matter what you may tell yourself. You are getting someone to fall in love with you while not telling them about a crucially important detail about yourself, and then hoping they will just overlook it and be with you. That is MANIPULATIVE. We're not talking about personality traits here, we're talking about BODIES which are primally connected to sexuality.
If I think you are a biological male and I'm attracted to you, it doesn't mean I am "attracted to a trans person," it means I am attracted to a CIS person who has not disclosed to me they are actually trans.
See... you guys play the victim card, which a lot of the time is true because the world treats trans people like shit. But then you turn around and try to act like there is NO difference between you and a born-male, and anyone who doesn't agree with that is "transphobic." I find that quite delusional. You will NEVER get me to believe that a trans man with a vagina is EXACTLY THE SAME as a cis man with a dick. It's NEVER happening.
And YES this does happen. Trans people catfish cis men, I know people it has happened to. The trans person doesn't actually think they are doing anything wrong because in their delusional mind they are exactly the same as a cis person and should not be seen any differently. It's UNETHICAL.
Apples and oranges. You not disclosing that you have a vagina is not the same thing as a person not being aware of their own transphobia. Most people don't know they're making micro-aggressions because they are ignorant, but you KNOW you have a vagina. You can't pretend you don't know. Personality conflicts come up as relationships progress but if you know from day 1 that you have a vagina that you're dating someone who is into dicks and don't tell them, then that makes you a manipulator.
Me liking dicks is not a "belief," it's my sexual orientation. And a great way to avoid having a transphobic conversation is to make sure the person knows you are trans IMMEDIATELY.
Good for them, I am NOT one of those men. I will NEVER fuck vagina. So you can stop twisting this to make it seem more acceptable. I actually find you very homophobic that you're trying to downplay this. If a man of any kind wants to fuck you, that's his business. I will never fuck a vagina, ever.
For me, the part in bold is laughable. I don't care whose vagina it is, my dick will never go in there. Sorry not sorry! How other men choose to rationalize their experience is up to them.
I wouldn't characterize it as you're trying to trap a man. I think you're just dishonest if you don't fully disclose who you really are. Ironically it makes you the insecure one, not them. I am secure enough in my sexuality to know I will never fuck vagina. It's not "insecurity" that I won't fuck you. I WILL NEVER WANT TO FUCK YOU. I'm glad you have found some gay men who are willing, but I assure you they are a minority. That's why it would piss me off if this information was withheld. You concealing information that is needed for me to know if I want to consent to a relationship or not. YES IT MATTERS. NO IT IS NOT TRANSPHOBIC.
I'm sorry for having to say this, because I know it's a loaded statement, and I don't mean it to hurt you, but I don't know how else to put it...
I want to be with real men. Biological men. XY men. I don't want to be with a man who has a vagina or a prosthetic penis. It doesn't mean you don't deserve to be treated like a human being. It means I know what I want and it will never be a trans man. Sorry.
Catfishing happens all the time. I know people it has happened to. And I can understand why. Trans people are probably so lonely and so desperate for relationships that some will not disclose their status just to get their foot in the door. I get it, I really do. But it's not ethical to deceive someone. You may psychologically think you are male but your biological sex is female. I am sorry that you have to deal with that conflict. But it's wrong to not tell someone.
Nobody ever reads the profile. heh
Listen, I understand what trans people go through from an outsider's perspective. I am well aware of the violence, the marginalization, all of it. It doesn't excuse catfishing or non-disclosure. I am not going to pretend that trans men and cis men are equal in form and function because they are not and never will be. In our spirits we are the same but in our physical bodies we are very different, and I'm sorry, but part of this life is having an animal body with carnal desire and my desire is for real, genuine-article cock.
There could be a trans holocaust tomorrow and I would fight for trans people but I will not accept being catfished and then being told I'm a homophobe because I won't just accept a vagina. Even if I'm not being catfished, I get called a transphobe because I tell trans men I am not sexually interested in them on the basis of their anatomy. I will not cater to left-wing, delusional entitlement or mental illness dressed up as post-modern liberation. Fuck right off.
Trans men are men but I will not have sex with them.
I don't really care to get into it, mostly because they are not my stories to tell. But I promise you they are real.
I want to support and respect trans people but part of me accurately perceives that there is a lot of cultural delusion happening right now. Like we are supposed to treat trans people like they are exactly like cis people, in order to support their mental illness. I can only do that to a certain point. Where I hit a boundary is where I'm supposed to treat a man with a vagina the same as a man who has a penis. That's never going to happen. Just like I am not going to think "fat is beautiful" and think that an obese person in a bathing suit looks just as hot as a finely sculpted, muscular man. It's never happening. They deserve to be treated with human decency but nature trumps social conditioning and even though people will publicly support this non-sense, in their private lives they will still choose sexual partners based on time-honoured criteria that are biologically driven. Fat people know this, just like trans people know this, which is why they are working overtime with their cultural revolution to change things. But guess what... it's never going to make me mate with you. I have free will.
You can twist the social politics all you want but you can't force people to like you. People have their preferences and many of them are hard wired. You can shame me all you want or call me a transphobe but I find vaginas repulsive no matter who they are attached to. I could think you are a stud and male-passing with your clothes on but as soon as I see vagina... nope nope nope. That's not your fault nor is it mine, but neither of us can gaslight reality about it.
I am equally offended by trans men calling me transphobic for not liking their vaginas as I am cis women for refusing their attempts to convert me to being straight or bi with their magic pussies. It's repulsive. They're both examples of female entitlement to men and they are not cool. I feel like some trans men have not decolonized their own female entitlement just like trans women haven't debunked their own male entitlement. Like how trans women want to force their way into women's safe spaces because their male-lived experience blinds them to what they are doing. Their strong, overriding sense that they are the opposite gender is preventing them from seeing that they are still enculturated by their birth sex and they still exhibit toxic behaviours indicative of that sex. I feel that's really what trans entitlement to cis people is about.
Please keep playing the field and I hope you find people who will adore you sexually. We all deserve to be loved. Cheers.
Okay this kicked the autism in so prepare for the word vomit but this is gonna be a very long one because you gave me a loooooot to unpack and you wildly contradicted yourself in utterly spectacular ways which really told me everything suspected, but hadn't heard you say. Here we go. Please also note the tome of this is a departure from my normal historical aggravate the cis transphobes or disrespect them and I'm aiming for a bemused, dry, sardonic analysis of the very incoherent essay you just blessed me with. YMMV. Nothing in here is meant to be insulting. My dryness is not always appreciated though but it's the only tone I have left.
I'm up in here making loads of polite concessions to you and being reasonable all the while you somehow interpret a post in which I actually said I wouldn't ever want a person like you who is attracted to vagina to ever sleep with me because you wouldn't enjoy it or be comfortable and that would be unpleasant for everyone in the situation to mean I have somewhere in what I wrote asked you to fuck me (I can only assume this from the repeated all caps yelling rage fest of you screaming at me that you will never fuck my vagina) which I honestly... Don't remember actually ever writing. Can you quote a part of what I wrote to you when I said you ought to fuck me? Or even said you should fuck a vagina? Did you read every word of the post or just see that I wrote the word vagina a few times and because I'm a trans guy you need to tell me VERY LOUDLY MANY TIMES that you DO NOT WANT TO FUCK MY VAGINA even though I... Said that you should never be put in that situation because it would be wrong.
I think maybe you should read the post again and not ramp up the tension when I type out the word vagina and assume I'm implying that you need to even go anywhere near it. I actually remember writing in the post that as someone who sometimes wants specifically dick and sometimes wants specifically vagina I actually do understand people wanting to only fuck one set of genitals. Did you accidentally wildly misinterpret my whimsical musings on my latent bisexuality and the benefit of having 100% options instead of 50% and because I like both and don't really care much about genitals since like, they don't turn me on to see them per se they just serve a functional purpose for me really that because of being bisexual I don't really understand limiting your dating pool to 50% based on what weird looking sex thing that is sorta gross looking on everyone each person has? I was being philosophical, I wasn't actually telling you to go out and have sex with women. I was just expressing a bisexual sentiment and putting out a consideration for varied choice being a nice bonus of not having a preference.
I haven't been rude to you at all during this discussion. You've been a wild ride so far though. That trans male friend you have, how many times did you have to get called transphobic before you decided you pick up the unicorn of trans men who isn't part of the leftist commune agenda and found them on Grindr of all places, I think you said. Correct me if I'm wrong there. But like, Grindr is mainly a Hook up app, right? And you're interested in vagina (which I'm just going to tell you this so you can allow yourself to take some very deep breaths and calm down, that has been crystal clear to me from the start. I'm close mates with
@mal3volent and he is only into dick. I actually have no issue with it and never have). I am unsure as to why you've slammed caps lock about fifty times to tell me something that I know and doesn't bother me? Good for you for liking dick and only dick. Here is some dick as a reward. As i have said if you are into dick and only dick, I actually don't want to hook up with you because you wouldn't enjoy it. How have you managed to twist me being considerate about the fact that no one should have to have any sex they aren't comfortable with just because some people think everyone needs to be okay with anyone's genitals or else they're transphobic into what appears to be you yelling at me that you never want to fuck me. I already told you before that I hope you never are in that situation for your own wellbeing. Like I am actually genuinely confused as to whether you bothered to read everything or skipped every second word. Granted it was a lot I'll admit. But yeah, I didn't ever tell you that you needed to go near a vagina. But to circle back to my point here, why would you even have messaged a trans guy? It's a hook up app and you don't like vagina. You obviously would not have messaged him. And if he messaged you then you would have obviously told him that there are glaring compatibility issues. If you use it for chats (which I do know some people do so I will genuinely consider the possibility) you've already said before that the vast majority of the trans community are members of a political alignment that you despise. So I mean you probably didn't have much of a reason to start a chat because I don't see many outcomes that would have ended well. If he messaged you that is more believable, but you hold a very serious level of distain for most of the trans community and that is clearly evident. You can try to deny it but you did say in one of your first posts that the reason you have one magical unicorn not bonkers leftist communist trans male friend is well, because you simply don't like most trans people. If you liked more of them you would have more trans friends. It's always amusing to me though because soooooo many cis people who have *cough* uh um *checks notes* Siri can you show me 'words I can use to describe transphobia because the cisgender person I'm talking to doesn't like being called that and I always have to make sure I am very respectful in conversations with cis people because if I upset them and they get mad they'll say a bunch of rude stuff but just before that make sure they slip in the slam dunk move which is to claim all trans people play the victim all the time which means everything they say now gets a free pass because if I say it's transphobic all they need to do is point at me and yell that I'm just playing the victim so I have to avoid that word and use one a bit different please* -siri loads- *okay, how about phrasing it in a way which highlights the fact that most people who hold negative views towards trans people always seem to have a distinct lack of friends who belong to that group of people, and while they could make the generalisation that for some reason gender identity means that everyone all signs up to the same political group (I just got my new party membership in the mail), it may be a more accurate observation that it may be more simply explained by good old Occam's Razor and the pretty self explanatory fact that trans people... Don't really love being around people who hold kind of shitty views against them because then we have to listen to it all the time and their justification about why it isn't actually very offensive.*
Now, I am not definitively saying that this is the case but this is the repeated and predictable trend which happens time and time again either their have no trans friends (no prizes as to why), or they have one trans friend. And there is always some reason that they don't have more trans friends which makes it seem like *they* don't want to be friends with trans people rather than that *trans* people don't much want to be around them.
I allow my friends who listen to me when I tell the why what they said wasn't cool to be around me. If they deny it was offensive, dig their heels in, make it into some ridiculous tangent debate, shift the goalposts, or just flat out refuse to engage they're done. It's been 10 years man, I don't bother any more. I only keep people in my life who make an effort not to say shit things about trans people and that is kind of my right as a human to not be friends with people who bring me down.
'is it transphobic to not want to have sex with a trans guy if he doesn't have a penis'
No it is not. That is called being dick hungry. It happens to the best of us but some have a permanent case of it.
What would be transphobic is if said trans man had a phalloplasty, full gender reassignment surgery, everything (and honestly the stories people tell about how unsuccessful phalloplasty is, well not always true. You can't recreate it entirely as a natural penis, but you can stand to pee, you can make it erect and penetrate a partner, and you can achieve orgasm. Sounds like a functional penis to me. Maybe I'm not to fussy and I'd just take anything that looks like a replica of a penis and stick it on my body and be able to do those things I listed. Honestly don't care if I can't cum, less mess to clean up gross. I know this information because I'm in a national phalloplasty group for Australia where post op guys show results and share the workings and functions of how their phalloplasty is going. Some surgeries just don't work out with people and it's unfortunate. One guy had such tiny arms because he was only about 5'0 that they actually could not get enough skin from the skin graft to make something into anything resembling a workable replica of a penis and he was gutted. If I were him I actually wouldn't have gone to the single surgeon in Australia who only does arm flap surgery. I'd have gone international and taken the graft from the leg to prevent this issue. That is what I'd do anyway if I could afford it because I have full tattoo sleeves and not keen on an inked up dick. Point being, phalloplasty penis's can be a seriously decent replica of the real deal and honestly if you still have a reason to not want to to consider hooking up with a trans guy when he does have a penis (which may I add, many gay men who say no to pre op do say yes to post op because now there is a penis so the issue has been solved) then I would consider reflecting on whether the issue is the presence of a vagina which you hate, or the absence of the penis which you love. Because if the answer is no hook up, then logic would stand to reason it wasn't really ever about the genitals at all tbh, it was their trans status. Unless you now say it has to be a natural born penis but we are both adults here and can agree without and arguement that to say that would be an egregious act of monumentally shifting the goalposts something wild. Food for thought. And in case I haven't made this clear enough already. I'm not saying you have to fuck anyone at anytime. These are all philosophical hypothetical scenarios to test the consistency of the logic behind the statements previously provided. Stop thinking I want you to have sex with people when I have literally written the opposite. It's like you want to be angry. The literal first thing I said to you was an invitation to be friends and you are now screaming at me. I don't have words for this level of sheer unreality that I am currently trying to absorb.
We need to address the last bit you wrote before I take some time to reflect on the two spectacular transphobic encounters I've had today. You've been more pleasant than the first person because she was just malicious and nasty. But that was easy to deal with. I'd give her a 4/10. You're around a 2/10. It sets the radar off but it's so predictable that it really doesn't do much else.
On the topic of disclosing again, I actually said in my first post. I really don't have an obligation to disclose that I'm trans to literally anyone I meet. You saying I should tell everyone I meet I'm trans to avoid a transphobic discussion is the peak level of cis not understanding what life is like being trans. I'll make this very simple. Let's do it your way
I meet new person. I introduce myself. They introduce themselves. I say I'm trans. They are shocked. They make a comment about how they can't tell and wouldn't be able to tell which surprises them which actually is an implied statement that they should have clocked me. First strike. They ask me how far along my transition is and how much surgery I've had. Second strike. They ask me how I have sex. Third strike. They ask me about my genitals. Fourth strike. They ask if it would be gay/straight if they slept with me dependent on their gender. Fourth strike. Let's not make this any longer but let's say we spend 10 minutes talking about me being trans. Leave, in a shitty mood.
I introduce myself. They introduce themselves. We talk about literally anything else, nothing about trans people gets mentioned, I decide they seem to be a cool person, leave the restaurant and I'm in a good mood.
If I need to explain why your idea is bad I can do so but I don't feel like it really needs a lengthy explanation.
Not everyone who sees me on the street needs to know I'm trans. I'm not going to stop everyone who walks by me and interrupt their busy day to tell them I'm trans just on the off chance they found me attractive and they're uncomfortable with finding trans people attractive and don't seem to understand you can find a person's physical appearance attractive and not need to fuck them. When I'm in men's locker rooms at the gym I see attractive guys there all the time. I can see them as they walk past me, notice they are an attractive person, and not have any desire to fuck them at all. That is not how it works. You don't have to blindly have sex with someone if you find them hot, some people are just nice to look at because they have symmetrical faces or their haircuts really suit them, or their facial hair looks cool, or their fashion makes them look nice. Sometimes you can just appreciate a person is pretty looking and leave it at that.
If you are attracted to a trans person and you don't know they are trans, they are not cis. They are trans. You cannot make a trans person cis because you personally find the idea of the possibility that you might ever find a trans person attractive a horrid thought. That is actually your problem to work through, and it actually does not give me an obligation to tell you because I may very have absolutely zero interest in you. And if I don't have any interest in you, why should you be entitled to the knowledge that I'm trans. I will always, forever, until the day I die be trans. If you (not that you do, apparently I have to break all my hypotheticals down in case you imply that I somehow told you that you needed to fuck me again - HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION -) and also I'm pretty sure you did actually use me in an example and did technically misgender me in the process of your very animated explanation that apparently I am able to now morph into a cis person at will. Please tell me how to do this. End my misery. Like on an actual very serious note why is it that I'm somehow magically a cis person when it suits you but I can't make myself permanently cis so that people stop sexually harassing me all the time and I can hook up with people without them expressing revulsion. That honestly is useless to me. I want to be cis all the time, not just when it's a magic trick so a cis person can keep ensuring they never really ever find a trans person attractive. You can't make me not trans. I am trans, it's as simple as that. You aren't looking at a cis person, you're seeing a cis passing trans person. That is what it is. You maintain that you are into vagina and males and if I took my clothes off in front of you that you'd be turned off. That's fine. I'm also turned off by people who are turned off by me so now it's time for me to inform you, that trans people are not turned on by people who are turned off by us. No one is turned on by that. We are not actually desperate for sex lol. I can get sex on grindr easily in like 10 min after I turn the app on why would I subject myself to being with someone who finds who I am as a person and my body a turn off. Why do cis people seem to think that trans people enjoy hearing cis people tell us that we are a turn off? That is the opposite thing that people enjoy hearing. No, we actually prefer to spend romantic and sexual time with those people who enjoy us and our bodies. That is the normal thing that people do. We don't go around wanting a cis person to accept us for a stamp of approval that we are valid. Honestly ngl I really prefer trans women to cis gay men cause I don't experience the most transphobia in my life from cis straight people, it is actually mainly from cis gay men and that is such a universal experience that the first openly gay high court justice of Australia openly criticized the cis gay community for the rampant transphobia. His words , not mine. So tbh as a general rule just as you find trans people a turn off, and let's not take this all the way down to the basics, you just made the most incredulously wonderful statement that trans people can now become cis in the situation that you have found them attractive, however the moment they reveal they are trans (and it is this moment, because why would you be insisting that they are cis) the attraction is gone. Don't need to go much deeper into that.
I need to correct some of your statements that you have posited that I said.
I have literally never said trans men are the same as cis men.
I have never said genitals are not connected to sexuality. They aren't for me, but I'm bisexual so that makes sense. If you don't have a preference the genitals of your partner sort of don't really matter.
I am a real man. Saying that am not is a transphobic statement. This may shock you to your absolute core and feel free to sit down before you read it but there is waaaaaay more to being a man, maleness, and masculinity than having a dick swinging between your legs. Penis does not equal gender. You can't say something along the lines of saying that you respect trans people then say I'm not a real man. They're literally mutually exclusive statements. You actually have to pick one of them, I don't care which one really because I have long long ago stopped really caring much at all about cis peoples opinions on a topic they don't actually understand at all. If you respected trans people, you'd know that slight changes in the way you say things which don't change the message you are trying to send can actually help trans people. So say you are trying to deliver the perfectly acceptable message to a trans person who messages you on Grindr that you are only interested in men who have a penis. Just say that.
If you say you're only interested in real men then you have contradicted previous statement you have made which I have already pointed out as an issue multiple times. The issue previously was that you are only attracted to men with a penis. Keep it up. However now, you are only attracted to a real man? Those are two very different things, and what you're actually saying is that you aren't attracted to trans men even if they have had phalloplasty (because now we have established that having a penis surgically constructed still does not pass the bar for you even though it previously did, no dice) so the only logical conclusion I can draw from this is that you are unattracted to *trans men*. Now that we have established it isn't about the penis, the only thing it can be is that they are trans.
And that, sir, is transphobic. Having a genital preference is totally fine. Normal even. But when you exclude people based on their trans status that is transphobia. I mean what are we, men lite? Half men? Surgical men? Bionic men? No one is going to make you have sex with a trans man still. But if you exclude one with a penis because he's trans that is prejudice.
Like dude there are contradictions everywhere here. Now at the end the problem is vagina again. Post op trans men exist, no pussy there. But again- they're not real men.
I actually agree with you and to be fair I sort of beat you to it when I did write that no one should ever be in a position where they are uncomfortable during sex because of genitals, and I even gave a possible hypothetical example of a situation which may one day happen to me where a gay guy who wants to experiment with me decides part way through that he can't do it - and what did I say my response would be? Stop immediately, reassure him that it's totally fine, tell him I'm not offended, make the situation become as non sexual as quickly as possible by putting on clothes and offering him his, and letting him know if he wants to just talk about what happened I would be happy to listen.
Bro does it sound like I'm going around forcing people into liking my vagina?
This is so funny. I wrote in my first post that some cis gay men have a belief that trans men are infiltrating Grindr to force cis gay men to hook up with them and like vagina.
You say in your post you don't think that.
Then you start blathering on about how trans men are catfishing (the chance of a trans person being murdered if they successfully catfish someone is astronomically high, so again I'd like to know the exact context of this because these trans men do not sound manipulative to me they sound suicidal and remarkably stupid. I want to know why someone would to something so dumb when they actually might die. No one is that lacking in self awareness. The very first thing we learn on our first day attending tranny school where we get indoctrinated into far left mlm politics is the fact that if we somehow (not sure how this is physically possible though) manage to have sex with a cis person and only after tell them that we are trans, that is probably the day we leave the earth. The second lesson is that cis people always think that they are entitled to know if we are trans.
You do bemuse me. I'm not trying to make anyone fall in love with me without sharing that I'm trans. The thing is people only have an issue with this if they do truly still view medically transitioned trans people as the gender they were assigned at birth, which you do, because you said you only want a real man and not a trans man. My gender is male. That makes me a male. Most people care more about the gender of a person than their sex in the circles I run in. You're fortunate. Your sex and your gender match so it's been a pretty smooth ride regarding that for you, but I've had a male gender identity, and a very very strong one since I was 4. I'm going to ask you a serious question. Did you only figure out that you were a male when you learnt that the different looking kids actually had different looking bodies and prior to that you honestly just assumed you both look the same? And then after that someone had to have a long talk to you about how boys and girls are different? I actually don't think you're an idiot, so I can safely assume that did not happen and similarly to me you just knew you were a male at some random point during early childhood. I just got the shit end of the stick and when I was direct ordered to my mother's uterus the shipping department put the wrong packaging on me and someone dropped a bucket of estrogen on that and now 27 years later here I am still fixing that mistake. That is the difference between sex and gender. The ONLY reason that you would think that I am somehow decieving anyone at all who i might go on one single date with and actually decide I find how loud they breath to be utterly intolerable the fact that I am trans is if you think you all have a right to know my assigned gender at birth aka 'what I really am' because if you view me as male, it's not really much of a big deal for people when I tell them. And I used to do it this way. When people were actually chill about it they didn't even blink. Some people actually just don't give a fuck at all.
Just like how you think making people introduce themselves and state their pronouns is ridiculous (can you also please explain to me how it also contributes to gender confusion because that's actually a new one) which ironically I actually disagree with you on this one and I massively prefer telling people my pronouns rather than having people use gender neutral pronouns for me. But point being, you don't like doing this because you don't like pandering to a tiny minority group. Do you know who else are a tiny minority group? Cis gay men who are specifically only attracted to vagina and so uncomfortable with the concept of finding a trans person attractive they make them cis instead. We actually share common ground here because just like you I really don't like pandering to tiny minorities, especially when it negatively affects me. I actually don't see why I should have to tell every single person I ever date, at the start of the date, even though heaps of times I don't end up liking them that much because I'm not a prolific dater and I have phases of sort of giving it a go so honesty I sort of just get bored of it after the second date and break it off, when I'm never going to see them again and there is no possibility of any sexual activity. They don't actually need to know, I'm clearly not doing what you just weirdly accused me off and manipulating them by decietful behaviour about who I 'really am' because I'm trying to get them to fall in love with a not genuine version of me. I'm not trying to get them to fall in love with me at all. I'm trying to figure out if *I* like *them* enough to continue in the neurotypical torture dance of dating when I rarely want to cohabitate with another breathing human.
Terms that you use. You're missing a crucial aspect of this. Genetic sex is one thing. Biological sex is another. Gender is a third.
I agree with you that you can't change your chromosomes. I actually have literally zero clue what mine are and I've been told a couple of times to get genetic testing done for an intersex condition. Some intersex people are XY with completely biological female bodies and I honestly want to ask your opinion on this. My question would by which preference overrides the other. You want an XY male and there is one right here, but you hate vagina so I would have to assume a hook up would be a no. Seriously honest question. Biological sex is not the same as people think it is. Biological sex refers to a person's genitals. Genetic sex refers to a persons chromosomes. We assign sex at birth based on biological sex, eg what genitals a person has. I'll use me as an example for ease, but remember I am working on assumptions here considering the advice for genetic testing. I was assigned female at birth and my junk looked normal, so I was biologically female for a period of my life. The point at which I stopped being biologically female was the day I started hormones. As a teenager I was genetically female (I assume, whatever this was it won't ever change and we agree on that), biologically female, and I had a female gender presentation (a masculine one at that) due to conforming at high school. When I came out as trans I remained genetically female (assumed), biological female, and my gender became a male gender presentation. With hormones I am no longer biologically female. However I'm also not biologically male became as biological sex is based on the external genitals a person has, I do not match the presentation of a biological male. I don't call myself biologically male because I'm not, and given I won't be able to probably ever afford a $90,000 surgery I probably never will be. But if me and a biologically female woman took our clothes off and stood side by side it would be weird to use the same label. We don't have the same external genital presentation with sex characteristics and hormones. And in a medical setting I am never referred to as biologically female. The term my medical file says is 'surgically transgendered female to male transsexual' and yeah look it might be pretty clunk but imo it's probably as close as anyone will get to describing with any accuracy my current biological sex. If they used genetic sex on the file it would say female. I'm not disputing that. But mate these are the actual terms used to describe the types of sex referring to humans and if you're going to go off at trans people for saying we are things that we aren't then learn and get it right. According to your use of it, you want a biological male. A trans man on hormones having had full gender reassignment surgery would meet that criteria. Now I'm still not saying you need to fuck him either because I did read your whole post and you've also said any male you fuck also needs XY chromosomes so that guy is out. I'm not honestly sure why you care what chromosomes people have because you actually can't ever know for sure unless you check chromosome test results before you have sex with anyone but it's your life. You don't want to just be saying you want a biological male because otherwise you're including post op trans men. So I would recommend adding reference to genetic sex in your statements separately. Just what I'd do if I had a preference for this.
Oh homophobia. Yeah, the guy who only allows guys to experiment with trans men if they ask first and literally doesn't message people first on Grindr ever. The dude who has a policy when he experiments with first timers that if they at any moment, including the second they walk in my door, start removing their clothes, touch me in any way, get on my bed with me. Literally at any second they are with me if they want to stop I do everything I can to ensure they understand they have absolutely zero ongoing obligations to me and they can leave immediately or just sit and chat about anything they want, is being homphobic and trying to convert cis gay men who don't like vagina to pussy. Yet another contradiction. You literally said earlier that you didn't think trans men were doing this. Then you wrote an entire paragraph of them doing the exact thing you said you didn't believe they do while making a snide comment about female entitlement regarding trans people which is a dick move. And it is.
Your whole post contradicts your statements that you don't think trans men behave in a way they manipulate people. You say they don't, then you say I do with zero proof to provide. I'm going to tell you something very important. You are only into dick so you tell literally every person that to make it blindingly obviously clear, as is your right. Not everyone does this. Many people don't have a preference, and considering most people fall somewhere in the range of a flavour of bisexual where it's 50/50 or 70/30 or maybe just one single special person from the opposite sex, but a minority of society is either completely heterosexual or completely gay, or asexual. And then even within those subgroups, there are members of that minority who still would fuck a person who had the genitals of the opposite sex. One of my support workers is gay, he does not identify as bisexual. He has had sex with trans men and doesn't much care either way. He wouldn't fuck a cis woman, only a trans man. He doesn't tell people his genital preference. That is actually a fairly unusual behaviour in people. I don't know with any level of certainty the genital preference of any of my cis friends because they never talk about it. I have never manipulated a single person ever because no one has ever come up to me (until your last message) and shouted at me that they refuse to fuck one set of genitals. It's just never happened to me. And it's why I don't message first. I can't assume what genitals any person prefers because it isn't something I've been told or can possibly figure out. How can I manipulate someone when I don't know they don't like my genitals? I know some people don't but aside from you I can't pick them out of a crowd. And for that reason your statement makes no sense. I can't be expected to tell every person I meet I have a vagina on the off chance they fall into your minority within a minority group and they don't want to fuck me. The ultimate example of pandering to a minority. No, if they actually tell me they aren't into vagina I'll just peace out and walk away. Still have zero obligation to inform them. Why would I? I have zero interest in them, don't want to have sex with them, and I honestly don't really want to be around them.
This is my peace offering to you. I'll give an olive branch here despite the transphobia and the denial of it. If you want I'll get a big tattoo that says tranny on my forehead and that way everyone everywhere who ever sees me will be assured a very prompt disclosure. And I'm not being a victim here, I told you this is a 2/10. I'm not remotely Psychologically affected by this, it's been interesting seeing the justifications for why trans people need to tell everyone, statements that it's somehow manipulative not to tell a cis person your assigned gender even though there's probably a 50% chance the date might fizzle out and no one is trying to get someone to love them on a first or even a fifth date. That is like, post establishment of committed relationship type stuff for normal people. And to make this clear, yes - I would tell them prior to agreeing to be committed. Obviously. I'm not being ridiculous. This has been fun and interesting for me because of the misinterpretation of things I said and assumptions you hold, and then the constantly shifting definition of what you are attracted to. Me being a victim doesn't occur for me until mmmm I'd probably say when it's an instance of sexual harassment, abuse, discrimination or something that actually causes me distress
Having a cis gay guy scream at me in all caps repeatedly that he doesn't want to fuck my vagina because he hates vaginas when I am very aware that he does and I already said I hoped he never had to nor anyone else is just confusing. At least the caps lock button got a work out though.
The kind of subtle unsaid message with your caps lock yelling as though I implied I wanted you to do that at any time or would be interested in that at all when you've cleary stated it's a turn off plus the statements that I'm being manipulative by not disclosing because I'm tricking people (what a new one) and then the whole catfishing thing because they're delusional bit, add in the thing I never said about trans men and cis men being the same and genitals having nothing to do with sexuality is very spicy I love your work. It's refreshing. The icing on the cake for me was the sympathy, and then the 'i believe the trans delusion stuff' actually pure magic.
This is meant as a joke but I do understand why you only have the one trans friend. He is very patient. When you're fighting for our rights make sure you wake up extra early to put in double time to make up for the stuff you say heh. Like why even bother fighting for us in some hypothetical trans holocaust when you're so hung up on not considering us real men (which literally proves you see us as women, misgendering is straight up transphobia my dude) because you have this bizarre belief trans men everywhere want to fuck you. If you're standing up when you read this please take a seat. Here is the gods honest truth. If I somehow was well, unfortunate enough to be talking to you on Grindr and you felt the need to inform me of how you only want a real man in the situation I stated interest in you when my status was openly disclosed, as it always is on dating apps and for once I messaged first, the literal second you say those words I do not want to be within a close physical proximity to you, I am immediately turned off, and I don't want to speak to you anymore. We aren't desperate for sex or cis approval, you aren't special, you're jus another transphobe we encountered and we deal with you the same as by other, you aren't welcome in our lives. There's plenty of people who will fuck us, in my personal experience the majority of people I interact with on
grindr. I have never had to put more than 15 minutes of my time into finding a quick hook up on a busy night. None of us are so desperate for your validation once we realise we don't need your approval to exist and live that we would want to fuck someone that is turned off by us, it's degrading, and demeaning. Know this, if transphobes were rightly forced to disclose their bigotry first, which is the morally correct thing to do rather than forcing people who might be violently assaulted if their status as a trans person is revealed to the wrong person to out themselves, most of these issues would go away. Demanding trans people put themselves at the mercy of transphobes wherever they encounter them by demanding they disclose their status widely lest they accidentally expose a member of the maybe slight minority of gay men who hate vagina and pander to a minority within a minority because people don't like admitting to the world they're bigots. Cute.
You're not an ally. You found the Blair White of trans men who is so self hating and desperate to be cis and relies on cis approval to feel good that he subjects himself to having a friend who doesn't even consider him a real man. You're the most annoying type of transphobe, the ones who say transphobic stuff but sprinkle in that they would fight for us. You can't even bring yourself to view us as our true gender lmfao.
Just accept it. I accept that I'll never be a real man to you, because you can't bring yourself to learn terminology which would allow you to retain your identity as a cis gay male who only likes dick while also acknowledging our identities. Could have said you don't want me, you want a genetic or natal male and I wouldn't have batted an eye. Instead you said you didn't want me because you want a MALE. So I'm obviously a woman to you. I don't care, I'll never meet you and I don't care what you think, everyone in my life views me as a real man and they're the only people I care about.
The delusional cis thinking they aren't transphobic. Never ceases to amaze me. Just accept it dude, you'll be fine.
BL is way more fun.
