UK's drug industry

[missing old pills]

Hi MOP here I wonder if you'd be kind enough to share your views on this subject.

I can't help but notice the complaints and obsevations of users of certain street drugs. In particular coccaine,Heroin and ecstasty(not MDMA).
In 2000 the drugs trade was in full flow and it would blow your mind more than the drugs to imagine to money that was flying around the black market(and legal market as they are very interlocked).
Secretly community leaders,police chiefs,science professionals,medical experts,judges,govenments,countries and even the United Nations were very much considering the possibilities of legalising drugs and to this day still do.
In 2000 the drug war kicked off by Richard Nixon had been running for 40 years and had cost countless lives and money. It was not at all successful especially if you believe the stories that the CIA was responsible for the crack explosion in the US under the Reagan administation.
After the fall of communism in Russia, NATO and most of all America had alot of spare equipment,people and most important jobs that the military kept high on the tax payers agenda.
Along comes the Bush administration.
Then 911.
The War on Terrorism and The War on Drugs are combined and is made the top priority over real social problem that NATO and the rest of the world share.
Military jobs,equipment and the arms industry are saved!
Who gives a fuck about communism now when we have new scores to settle.
Number 1 on the agenda:- let's kick fuck out of one of the poorist countries in the world.
Number 2 :- Fuck this is expensive let's finish Daddy's job in Iraq illegally and secure some resourses.
Number 3 :- let's give poor countries loads of money to arm corrupt administrations to line there pockets and keep people poor as long as they give the drug cartels a hard time.
Number 4 :- let's go back into Afganistan to road test new military hardware and destroy heroin crops allthough most of the world are crying out for medical painkillers.
Number 4 :- although it's going to cost a fortune and make it a living nightmare for industry let's hunt and control like never before precusers and intermediates of all known illegal drugs which by now our science/medical professionals are starting to get a grip with.
2010 - 50 years into the drug war.
Imo they are winning to a degree.
Mexico is experiencing a near civil war of which the president has said the drugs war is destroying democracy.
Afganistan is a fucking joke as the Taliban sit back and wait for us to leave because we can't afford to be there anymore because China and India have run off with the greedy wests money
The drug takers of the world are turning their back on 'classic drugs' due to the fact that the success of the drug war has forced up wholesale prices(along with everything else we want to buy, 1.5 billion this country spent on the drugs war last year) therefore because the layer cake still want the same
(if not more profits) the final street product isn't worth wiping you arse on.
So they turn to newer and more obscure chemical analoges doing God knows what to us!
Thank heaven we have a tool such as bluelight as could you image the shite that would be printed in the paper about new compounds as they hit the street.
Unfortunatly it is a double edged sword. If we report something is good they ban it!
If we say something is shite they let it carry on to be sold regardless of health risks.
I would love to hear everyones views on this as in my perfect world we would be our own customs officer to what goes into our bodies.
Imagine if you could open a book like pihkal and say to yourself "oh, he's warning about that one but he says that one is ok. I think I'll try that and I'm so glad he showed the doseages so I don't kill myself"
Carefull administration of 99.9 % pure chemicals at the right doseages has got to be better than the game of roulette we all play hasn't it?
Plus the overpriced crap the black market spews out thanks to the drugs war is not in anyones interest is it?
What's your thoughts?

 

[dee_dee]

well, one could argue that drugs are cheaper these days due to there popularity. id disagree with that statement. i can only talk about ecstacy here but if one pill costs 20 pounds back in 1988, and even more before i started taking it, and the original precursor chemicals to make it are now impossible to get hold of or virtually impossible, then one could argue that if you was able to still obtian it being made via the original methods of the late 80's, due to the clamp down that would make it much more expensive today than the prices that it was being sold for even back then, not less?. the maths and figures do not add up whatsoever surely that has to make the new ecstacy around today suspect and questionable at the very least

 

[missing old pills]

That's exactly why I would like to hear peoples views, things just don't add up to me.
It's all economics. If you have an oil burner this Xmas it will be costing you double from last year and it you can't tell me it's down to the BP oil disaster.
To me drugs are made up with base products and futher chemicals.
Gold is up, oil is up and everything is up.
Since the recession Tesco have trimmed back on wholesale and distribution costs.
Is anyone telling me that the drugs industry don't do the same.
Prices go up quality goes down. It's simple economics

 

[dee_dee]

before i started taking e in 88 earlier that year i had friends paying 25 and 30 quid just for one. and although rumours and thats all they are, before that in the vip lounges of clubs people like *inserts famous gay popstars from londons names here*l in the mid 80's have all well documenetd they were doing it, and the price back then would of mroe than likely been 40/50/60 quid a pill. if the clampdown wasnt hardcore back then as the drug wasnt brought into the spotlight and common knowledge, and we can assume it was being made by orriginal precursor methods back then, that would make a pill made that way today about 100 quid more than likely, lol although we can take off a bit due to demand and popularity i guess. so what exactly are these pills and potions today that costs a mere tuppence in compparison?

 

[dee_dee]

That's exactly why I would like to hear peoples views, things just don't add up to me.
It's all economics. If you have an oil burner this Xmas it will be costing you double from last year and it you can't tell me it's down to the BP oil disaster.
To me drugs are made up with base products and futher chemicals.
Gold is up, oil is up and everything is up.
Since the recession Tesco have trimmed back on wholesale and distribution costs.
Is anyone telling me that the drugs industry don't do the same.
Prices go up quality goes down. It's simple economics

at the beginning of 2008 a friend took me to budapest for a late xmas present. while there in a club we stumbled across a local that sold us some blue cherries. the selling point was they had the classic smell. (and we thought were in one of the capitals of europe for synthetic chems wed struck gold) they did indeed have the classic smell. they was not very expensive at all. we needed to take 5 each just to get a reasonable hit out of it (not all in one go obviously), but there was so much other speedy shit going on we felt like absolute crap for a whole week afterwards. really was not worth the effort imo at all. i rememebr that night well, we all thought we got lucky, rubbing are hands with gleee to begin with

 

[Jabberwocky]

if the clampdown wasnt hardcore back then as the drug wasnt brought into the spotlight and common knowledge, and we can assume it was being made by orriginal precursor methods back then, that would make a pill made that way today about 100 quid more than likely, lol although we can take off a bit due to demand and popularity i guess. so what exactly are these pills and potions today that costs a mere tuppence in compparison?

ever wait a few years for the price to go down before you get some new technology? if you do that you basically wait til they've ironed out the problems in production, sorted out the distribution process, got steady supply of materials from various countries to meet demands etc. i see no reason why this is not basically the same phenomenon. also, rarity adds value to anything.

to answer your last question, as has been endlessly debated- whats in the pills people talk about mostly on here, bought for £5-10, is mdma.

the war on drugs is a joke. as MOP mentioned a lot of it is about jobs etc, just good old Orwellian perpetual war, and fuck me they choose a good enemy for scaring the shit out of people.

don't think people are turning their back on 'classic drugs,' just taking less if its pricier (unlikely for certain drugs, i save money by taking mdma, paying double what i used to on a g, rather than drinking) and sourcing carefully to ensure quality. its not just illegal drugs where things are watered down beyond comprehension for profit, almost everything highly commercialised gets this- our markets tend to encourage a race to the bottom in terms of quality of product to ensure highest quickest profits.

 

[ponch]

It's pretty simple really; competition. When mephedrone first started knocking about it was selling at £20+ a g, as popularity rose and more people started to realise you can make some serious money out of it prices started to tumble. Just before the ban it was possible to pick it up for less than £10 a g with no drop it quality over the stuff people were paying over 20 quid for in 2007. This was all down to the fact so many people were selling it.

Similarly look at the pill market recently, when the pills turned up again it was not uncommon for people to be paying £10 each. You only had to read the regional pill thread to see some people were struggling to get any at all at that stage, fast forward a few months and the pills are pretty much all over the country in large amounts prices have tumbled to £4 a pill for some people for exactly the same pills people were paying £10 for a couple of months ago.

I don't think people are turning their back on 'classic' drugs either, All of the classics had to be new at some point. I suppose shamen were sat back years ago moaning about the kids and their new fangled cocaine while off their tits on DMT.

 

[Sadie]

The war on drugs: a fine piece of propaganda. Classical conditioning and the big lie.

sorry, been reading about propaganda in mass media too much as of late.

 

[pothole]

£4 a pill ? I have yet to see a good pill for £10 in my area. Think I need to move.

 

[missing old pills]

Can we try and keep this thread on track. There are a shit load of ecstasy threads this is a completely different discussion.
Thanks

 

[RLP]

It doesn't matter how conclusively the argument for legalisation continues to get, it's not going to happen any time soon. Why?

1) The government who legalises drugs can kiss goodbye to a huge number of their seats come next election.

2) The ministers at the very top will suddenly stop receiving brown envelopes stuffed with cash.

Is there any reason why 'education' is geared towards "Don't do this, it'll turn you into an orange?" aside from those factors above? People wised up to the religion indoctrination so naturally something else has to follow for the ignorant to be controlled with.

Such is life.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Can we try and keep this thread on track. There are a shit load of ecstasy threads this is a completely different discussion. Thanks

when i frist read this, particularly dee dees response, i felt like this was another argument as to why younger ecstacy users are still somehow, according to you, wrong, because their drugs are cheaper than yours were so they can't be the same even if science proves it, or something.

had you responded to ponch and i's attempts at engaging you in the subject, i would have felt that my initial assessment was unfair and this is a genuine discussion of the economics of drugs production, which is why i kept it to myself to start off with.

competition drove prices down and technology forward. even heard a story of people setting up very high tech mass production of mdma without really buying any equipment, stole it from a research institution, though that was pre saffrole import restrictions. plus you don't need any of the licenses or legal advice etc that usually cost a startup business a lot of money.

the only other drugs i've known much about (over the past decade) in terms of price have all got more expensive, afaik, so i can only really make suggestions regarding mdma.

 

[jon-bon]

most of the people know the war on drugs is not working. most of the police know it's a lost cause. only the people in power have not got the balls to change anything, as there scared of the backlash from the press etc. who take drugs anyway.

 

[missing old pills]

when i frist read this, particularly dee dees response, i felt like this was another argument as to why younger ecstacy users are still somehow, according to you, wrong, because their drugs are cheaper than yours were so they can't be the same even if science proves it, or something.

had you responded to ponch and i's attempts at engaging you in the subject, i would have felt that my initial assessment was unfair and this is a genuine discussion of the economics of drugs production, which is why i kept it to myself to start off with.

competition drove prices down and technology forward. even heard a story of people setting up very high tech mass production of mdma without really buying any equipment, stole it from a research institution, though that was pre saffrole import restrictions. plus you don't need any of the licenses or legal advice etc that usually cost a startup business a lot of money.

the only other drugs i've known much about (over the past decade) in terms of price have all got more expensive, afaik, so i can only really make suggestions regarding mdma.

Like I said with higher wholesale prices and the world blowing shit out of each other in the name of 'the war on drugs' I would fully expect drugs to become more expensive and lower in quality.
Did you know the Yanks use post cold war nuclear submarines to shadow ships leaving South America! To me, considering the US economic crisis, this is unsustainable like the war in Afganistan is.
As for previous threads, they are a seperate entity and yes, I do discuss other drugs and subjects other than my personal views on ecstasy

 

[captain codshit]

Things right now are at the cheapest they have been in 18months at least imo.

 

[missing old pills]

Things right now are at the cheapest they have been in 18months at least imo.

That's at your level codders. I'm talking about point of origin prices and i'm sure you don't buy all drugs. How does the price of heroin compare to the past 10 years and how's the quality?

 

[pinkpapaver]

it certainly is strange, but then life's stranger. halleluija!!!!

 

[dee_dee]

its subjective and varies from person to person i guess. there are always going to be well connected people in exclusive more underground circles that can get better stuff, but as a regular guy just like most the public, i wouldnt even clean my toilet with the coke that ive been unfortunate to try on a few occasions earlier this year

 

[Jabberwocky]

Did you know the Yanks use post cold war nuclear submarines to shadow ships leaving South America! To me, considering the US economic crisis, this is unsustainable like the war in Afganistan is.

no, i didn't, but it sure helps explain why cokes become such a joke recently.

i did agree that the 'war on drugs' is a farce. the intentions behind it are not what they're state to be, and its a massive human rights violation. if this is what were discussing then ecstacy is totally irrelevant because the mdma we consume is not produced in south america/middle east/wherever the war on drugs is happening. in this case i can't understand posts 2-5 of this thread at all, they're nothing to do with the war on drugs, and look like an economic argument for why today's ecstacy must be substandard.

 

[missing old pills]

It maybe down to ecstasy being a subject both of us have been dicussing. That is why I'm trying to keep this thread on the bigger picture. If anything we were pointing towards the difficulty in obtaining precusers and intermediates to create designer drugs.
I know someone who works for a chemical firm which will remain nameless. She told me if you try to obtain certain chemicals over a certain amount anywhere in the world the transaction is flagged up to some seriously powerful organisations and with these chemicals now so closely watched at source has made it very difficult to deal with them 'no questions asked'.